Forums/Pioneer Gear/Digital DJ & XDJ Controllers

ERGO sound card

Azu
posted this on November 02, 2011 13:12

DDJ-ERGO uses the same audio card as DDJ-T1?

I use the laptop DDJ-T1, DDJ-ERGO driver has the same name but different size of installation file.
I can not use the DDJ-T1 and DDJ-ERGO together and I always reinstall the driver, depending on which controller I currently use.
Virtual DJ ERGO does not switch automatically set the master deck for the sync and sync function is so very wrong to use.
Sound often includes disturbing pops, CPU usage is only max. 40% a nepomohlo ani zvýšení latence na 20ms and even helped increase the latency to 20ms and 16bit. DDJ-T1 works on the same computer correctly.

 

Comments

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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

I'm not sure that the ERGO uses the same soundcard, but it is a Pioneer ASIO driver for PC, CoreAudio for Mac (no driver required)  I haven't tried switching between the two on a PC yet, but on the Mac it's okay.  I'll see if I can check that today.

As for the pops, the software may require a different latency setting with that hardware, so you can't compare it to the settings of another software and another hardware.

The sync function is based on the software; you have to assign a master, it doesn't automatically do it for you.

November 03, 2011 02:31
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Jamey Sewell

I too am getting static and mini pops... More so after using an FX. Updated firmware and Vdj to latest. Still there

December 07, 2011 22:36
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

@Jamey > As suggested above, increase the latency to the point where you no longer get pops or static.

December 08, 2011 04:58
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Jamey Sewell

Yes, I've increased it all the way..... Nothing changes.

December 08, 2011 05:41
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

What kind of computer are you running it with?

December 08, 2011 05:51
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Jamey Sewell

I started a new thread last night because I wasn't sure if my problem was exactly the same...but this is what I wrote:

 

Just picked up the Pioneer Ergo. Unfortunately, I'm having bad audio problems.

The pc is definitely ruled out. I have a powerful HP Pentium dual-core 2.6mhz 18.4 in Laptop which is a desktop replacement workhorse. It works EXTREMELY well with Hercules DJ trim 4&6 and Virtual DJ.  I also have a Quad-Core 3.06 mhz home built machine in which the same thing occurs.

Audio from Pioneer's ergo is static-like at times... as if there wasn't a big enough buffer in the asio card. I played with all the settings for the pioneer driver including Standard. Also have updated the Ergo FW to 1.10 and VDJ to 7.0.5 (b377)   The problem still comes and goes ALL night. Particularly after using an FX.

Also, for when I'm at the club, I'd like to split the channels so that I can use my pioneer 800 as the mixer.

I tried an Advanced setting to have Audio channels 1&2 = Deck1 And 3&4 = Deck2
It somewhat works, but it amplifies the original problem 10 fold.

Is there something I'm missing? BTW, I have used the ergo on both Laptop and PC. Problem exists both places.
I would really like to do the advanced setting so that I can use my Pioneer 800 mixer (When at the club).

 

Here's a sample of audio problem using buffer set to max.

http://hotfile.com/dl/137029663/7a45f12/normal.mp3.html
http://hotfile.com/dl/137029655/c3ee950/static.mp3.html

December 08, 2011 06:31
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Do you have any other ASIO audio interfaces you can test?

December 08, 2011 06:49
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Jamey Sewell

Just the Hercules DJ trim 4+6 which still works.

December 08, 2011 07:06
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

And you say it only occurs after engaging an effect?

December 08, 2011 07:52
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Jamey Sewell

No, but becomes more noticeable.  It is there all the time, but most noticeable during a piano section or orchestral section. That's why I gave you the Disney sample. 

December 08, 2011 08:03
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Right - and I was able to hear that.

Are you using the Trim with external power?

December 08, 2011 08:06
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Jamey Sewell

No. At the club, yes (Because I have so many USB peripherals there). Right now, no.

December 08, 2011 08:17
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Does it still give you static and hum with the laptop power supply disconnected?

December 08, 2011 08:18
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Jamey Sewell

Yes, But not worried about the hum too much. Actually, the hum occurs right as I touch the USB connector. I believe this is an issue with grounding (Laptop Issue only). No hum on Home PC

December 08, 2011 08:21
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Jamey Sewell

Were you able to duplicate the problem? Is this an ASIO Driver issue?

December 08, 2011 17:27
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Jamey Sewell

So, Im wondering if downgrading the firmware might be a temporary solution? I never used the unit with factory FW. So I don't know if the problem existed before the FW upgrade.

December 09, 2011 06:25
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

I've used the ERGO on two different Macbook Pro models and three PCs (a desktop, a nettop and a laptop) and didn't have the same noise on any of them, sorry.  I'm thinking it could be a chipset problem with the USB -- have you tried a different USB cable (one with a ferrite core around it perhaps) and maybe connect it to a different USB port (not right beside the one you have it connected to now)?

December 09, 2011 06:27
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Jamey Sewell

Yes, first thing I tried actually. Actually, I recorded the sample I gave you through Virtual DJ itself (Not rca outs). Not sure if that makes a difference.   I'm running LE (Pro mode 16 days left). Do you think this could be the issue? Do you think there is a difference between the two (Even though VDJ site says I'm up to date)

December 09, 2011 06:47
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Jamey Sewell

BTW, factory settings for ASIO latency should be good enough... right?

December 09, 2011 06:48
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Factory settings for latency are the "best guess", but it's always suggested you go as low as possible without experiencing any skipping or stuttering in the audio.  Your static issue is likely not related to the buffer settings.  It's possible that your problem is related to the Ergo itself; I'm not certain if that's because of the particular unit or the design.  I'm going to open a ticket with the engineers to see if they can shed any light on the situation.

December 09, 2011 06:51
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Jamey Sewell

Thank You, What ever I can do to help speed things up... just let me know.

December 09, 2011 06:53
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Jamey Sewell

Forgot to ask if you tried to set up VDJ advanced.

Advanced Config:

Deck 1 = Ch 1&2

Deck 2 = Ch 3&4

 

I'm curious if you get the problem with this setup

December 09, 2011 07:21
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Yes, I have a licensed version of VDJ Pro and what's what I was testing with... and did not have any issues.

December 09, 2011 07:24
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Jamey Sewell

Hi Pulse, broke down and bought license. Downloaded the new 380 build. This helps but not quite. No more clicks (Except when trying to do advanced mode)

I would like to use the external mixer layout, but virtual DJ lowers the volume levels of CH 3&4 (Internally) Not sure why.

When I switch to advanced config, it does exactly what I want, but the pops and clicks come back.

December 09, 2011 14:06
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Jamey Sewell

Also, the sound quality is PERFECT, when in pure scratch no  master tempo MODE. Once I go back to high quality pitching, the sound quality is tremendously lowered. 

December 09, 2011 14:15
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Jamey Sewell

More info:

As I said before, DJ works great... Well not after pluging the Pioneer ergo into a usb Port

DeeJay Trim audio acts just like Ergo did (Just by plugging in the USB port)

When I unplug the ergo, DeeJay trim resumes it's awesomeness.

December 09, 2011 15:00
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Just to clarify -- you keep mentioning "Advanced mode"; are you using the manual configuration method through the config?

Try setting your Outputs to HEADPHONES, change the Sound card to ASIO DRIVER, setting the card to Pioneer DDJ ASIO, ensure Ultra-latency ASIO is unchecked and click the ASIO config button.  You should see the Pioneer DDJ ASIO Settings Utility window; adjust the buffer size to 256 samples and kernel buffers to 3, set the bit depth to 16bit, click OK.

Were there any other settings you might have changed or are you running any other software that may be conflicting with the ASIO drivers such as ASIO4ALL?

December 09, 2011 17:43
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Jamey Sewell

All that you have said was done.

Yes "Advanced Config" To assign channels appropriately.

If I set output to  headphones, the volume drops extremely low and problem is still there.

You are more than welcome to see for yourself using team viewer. Virtual DJ support did, They said there was nothing else that could be done on my end.  Latency checker showed excellent PC performance. They stated it was more than likely a firmware issue.

To be clear, using your settings helped a little, but the audio quality is not all that  good. For example, it sounds like every song is being time stretched (Master Tempo) even when it's playing at original speed. The only way to completely eliminate this is to disable master tempo altogether.

All other asio drivers were deleted for testing and didn't  help. I had to reinstall my Denon Asio drivers for tonight's performance. 

 

I appreciate your help and not trying to be snoty, but just to be clear, I am currently able to:

-Mix (mp3, MPG, MOV AVI, MP4) while Simultaneously play 2 HD Screens, run a light show, and surf the web with multiple windows running (All at the same time using  Deejay Trim with Denon HS 5500.

I never have any problems and never any crashes.

 

I want to lighten my load and have easier access to DJ controls... This is why I wanted to replace the above with the ergo.

 

If I could send this thing back, I would. It's definitely not plug and play and am still not able reliably use it in any environment.

Virtual DJ support keeps playing the blame game and  claim it's pioneers hardware. They said it's new and is bound to have issues at first.

As I might agree, I don't enjoy being a beta tester for a product in which I had complete faith in to work from the get go (Especially for the cost). I have always used pioneer decks and mixers and thought I was getting a quality product.

 

Once again, I know your trying to help. But am I suppose to accept the sound quality at:

16 bit, with fast stretching and fast trans coding?  Am I to accept that I need to lower all the setting in order to use pioneer's sound card that is twice the price of my current (which works flawlessly)?

 

As you can see, I super frustrated and have been testing settings all day (On my birthday no less) and have nothing to show for it.

 

I personally think its a bad driver / firmware, but what do I know?

Virtual DJ support also told me they found problems on their end as well, but would go into details...

 

December 09, 2011 23:00
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

@Jamey > No worries, I don't think you're being snotty at all -- and I'm not playing any blame game (yet!) because we still don't know where the problem is.

The reason I asked you to check the ASIO settings to ensure they were at the lowest quality levels was for the lowest-common-denominator.  Yes, higher quality is supported, but you don't drive a car in 5th gear to troubleshoot an unknown problem with the engine.

I don't think it's a firmware issue because you're the only one who's reported this problem, and as I noted, I've used the same hardware / firmware on various computers without the same issues.  I've opened a ticket with the engineers because I've exhausted all I can think to try short of telling you to return the unit -- but you noted "If I could send this thing back, I would"... is there an issue with returning it / exchanging it with the retailer?

December 10, 2011 07:00
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Jamey Sewell

Yeah, PSSL will not take returns on packages with software (Due to serial issues). I think I'd have to pay like 25% of cost.

I'm sure they would do an exchange.But, be honest, I'm confident (But not positive) there is nothing wrong with the unit. I honestly feel like software is to blame. Similar things happened in the past with other hardware and turned out to be bugs that were fixed with software.I don't want to drowned you with details, but it really feels the same. T

this is the closest unit I found to meet my needs.... If it worked.

 

Ok, I understand why you had me check out those settings now... I thought you wanted me to continue using those settings as if

I were to accept the quality as is. Thank you for clarifying. (Made me feel better)

 

 

 

I made a post in the Virtual DJ forum to see if anyone else can verify the issue.  perhaps there is one more test you can do too I posted it here:

http://www.virtualdj.com/forums/157545/PC_Version_Technical_Support...

 

I know we don't really know each other, and it's kinda hard to tell where our areas of expertise are in by chatting over the forums...

There are a lot of people out there who can not tell the sound difference between a true 320kps and 128kps encoded file. My ears are quite sensitive to the quality changes and am not sure that you are hearing the same thing I am?

I'm guess I'm just asking if it's possible the problem is there in all units  but people are not reporting it because it similar to the difference of badly encoded mp3's?

I know that you wouldn't be a rep for pioneer unless you were on your "A" game... we just don't have any background on each other in infer this.

 

Sorry for the long posts... I tend to be too passionate at times.

December 10, 2011 07:44
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

I was able to hear the difference in the two files, so it's not just you -- but as previously noted, I didn't have the same issues on several computers here.

I'll see if Chris from Virtual has any input on this in addition to the engineers.

December 10, 2011 22:51
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

@Jamey > From the engineers...

#1. Are you running multiple DJ applicatons at the same time? 
#2. Are you connecting multiple contollers at the same time? 
#3. Is the issue occuring on both Master output and headphone output? Or either one? 
#4. When the user sets "Kernel Buffers" to 4 on Pioneer DDJ ASIO Setting Utiliry, does the isseue still exist? 
#5. Check "Ultra-latency ASIO". Does this help?

Another question I had, raised by the VDJ guys -- are you connecting the ERGO in daisy-chain with the Hercules unit?

December 13, 2011 08:57
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Jamey Sewell

1- No

2-Only the Ergo is Connected

3. Both

4. Tried, didn't matter

6. No, separate USB

 

I installed ERGO on a new "Virgin" pc. To my surprise.... Problems were not there.
So I went back to laptop and uninstalled and re-installed. Problems still exist.
But then, on the laptop, I went to settings / info and enabled "reset to factory settings"

problem is nearly fixed...
The sound is about 99% BETTER.
I can occasionally hear tiny pops / clicks but isn't too terribly bad.

Though the audio doesn't pop and crackle as much, the overall purity isn't great
Audio always sounds likes it's being stretched. even when Tempo is at 0% This is not an issue with other audio cards.

The audio quality is perfect when "master tempo / Key Lock" is off. But I need it enabled....

 

 

 

December 13, 2011 10:22
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Jamey Sewell

BTW, even on the Virgin pc, the Deejay Trim acts up (only when Ergo is connected)

By act up I mean "Key Lock" sounds not so pure

December 13, 2011 10:25
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Hold up, one reply ago you said, in response to question #2 -- Only the Ergo is connected, yet just now you're saying the DJ Trim acts up when the Ergo is connected, which means that's not a correct response?

December 13, 2011 18:33
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Jamey Sewell

To Clarify, there were multiple tests that were done:

 

-The end result on a virgin pc (No DJ Trim or Trim Drivers) - System sounds better, but you can hear Time Stretching issues on ERGO

 

-If I added the DJ Trim on the Virgin pc, while Ergo was connected, it still sounded the same when the RCA cable was connected through the trim (bad stretching quality) My thinking in this test was that maybe I could still use the controller, but have the Trim output the sound (But it doesn't matter - They both sound Identical when plugged in together).

 

-If I JUST used the DeeJay Trim on the Virgin PC (ERGO ASIO Drivers still installed but device disconnected), The sound was perfect on every level.

December 13, 2011 22:05
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Tobias Recuperator

Hi...maybe i have fixed the Problem ! ! !

its very simple. i had the same problem but ITS NOT the Ergo controller, and ints NOT your DJ software, because its not the pioneer ASIO driver!

I have format my notebook bevore starting with virtual dj and the Ergo.

i have mean win7 64 has all drivers, but thats not real so...on my Acer notebook (5530G) i have must install the right ATI driver for my graphic card!

After this installation, the sound was high quality with the standart seetings in the ASIO Driver!

Just try to Install a new Graphic Driver, maybe your problem is away =)

 

i hope you can read my bad english, because i am german und im not often write/talk english.

 

I hope that i could help you out!

 

Greetz from Germany

July 18, 2012 17:03
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

@Tobias > Thanks so much for your advice, we'll be sure to note that for all other users who are having a similar problem.

July 25, 2012 17:28
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Joe-Thierry Lauziere

I got the DDJ Ergo yesterday and I have the same problem described above. Static and sometimes the music seems to be playing faster then slower... sometimes the 4th beat sounds strange like the kickdrum was broken or something. Both on PC and laptop. My pc is 4core 3.5ghz 8gb of ram so I don't think that's an issue. Played a lot with  asio setting / sound configuration and it didn't change anything. Also changed USB cable. Rebooted the table, then at the beginning it seemed fix but over time mixing the issue came back... Please help me fix this I am supposed to mix at a New year eve party and it would be horrible if it did that there...

December 29, 2012 05:58
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Tobias Recuperator

hi, i have buyed a new controller and the NI audio 2 interface....first i have the same problem like yours. Try to make your notebook in high performence mode!  go to hardware manager and disable the W-lan card! check for  new graphic/cpu/HDD/and motherboard drivers!   now try....maybe its a little bit better! than try to open the ASIO driver and give them more usb buffer!  i think 4ms must be enough! than just make the latenz on zero...try...if its not better, make the latenz to 128...try und again and again. good luck...

December 30, 2012 05:56
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Joe-Thierry Lauziere

Using the Pioneer skin in VDJ in fullscreen seems to be the problem for me. Mixed for 4 hours without glitch in windowed mode and when I put it back to fullscreen it started glitching again

January 02, 2013 04:43
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