Sorry Puls, I havn't got any email from you till now! Maybe send it again please.

To the CDJ 2000 MT:

I'll test it again. Maybe this evening, I've got a gig, then I can test it in live conditions on a real big PA system with forein CDJ 2000s.

But anticipatory, I talked yesterday evening to 6 other DJ's who have CDJ 2000s and all has the same issues like me. I fact of this I think it is maybe an general problem. That's why I posted.

Greez

This one sure is a strange one, for a function to go mental after a set time?  I will try this out if & when I get some time.

it feels strange 4 me too. 2 years for maybe fixing the mt issue?!?!  now with this new firmware the playere 1 stops suddently(and no, is not the cable-i'm not retarded). don't ask me to make my own post because i'm not intrested. you people don't provide solutions you provide guessings. i will try to solve it myself if i can. by the way 1 cdj cost e 1500 at  least and for that money in my opinind the player it has to have inside a little computer - look at that lcd wich i think that is the cheapest that you can find in china. you can delete my post like marian's, i don't give a motorcycle but one thing is sure,  i will never pay 1 euro 4 pioneer hardware- i've made 2 years savings 4 this players, i love them but i'm a little frustrated. and another thing, i have traktor & audio 10 - in my opinion sounds louder & better than a cdj.

I dont use MT when mixing, but when new firmware came out I tried it a bit and to be honest it worked comparing with previous firmwares.

Now I promise I will leave MT on for the whole mixing set and I will come back with feedback.

@oreste, in few months time I suggest you also try the new Kontrol F1. I quess it will perfectly match with audio10 and Traktor!! I will try it ;) Take care

@ dream treez if you're joking that's the life. if you talk serious i don't thinks so. 1.i think i will invest no more because i am doing it for me at home the reason is 70% of people living in my country listen to this crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdcaYTD4q9E and the genere embraced by me wich is tech house is considered shit. 2 the people says that traktor is going to a ableton way wich i don't like but that it must be seen (maybe this week).

a thing must be understood. the traktor is not perfect because in these days the companies-corporation don't delivers quality, delivers  quantity an that is verry sad.  we will never can compare the built quality of cdj 100 (who is a legendary pice of steel in my opinion) with a cdj 2000 wich is a shiny thing who shows you error 8302 in the middle of the gig. maybe the things are not like i said, but is my opinion. excuse my bad english

@oreste, actually I am half joking, half talking serious!

First its up to you to decide if you will continue with your gear or decide to try also different hardware. But, it makes me kind of sad to hear you say that you will stop investing to music because you are doing it for yourself. The way I see it, it should be the other way around. However its your opinion and I respect it. I will continue to invest to music because I really enjoy it myself first and then for others.

Anyways, concerning cdjs, I will agree that cdj100s is excelent built quality for the value of money cost back then, but now are really cheap if you want to buy them, even if you wanna buy them brand new. Cdj100s play only cds, has 3 effects with hold botton, MT, one pitch range of 10%, cue botton, auto cue botton and a "rubb" plater. A player like cdj100s would be perfect back at the end of the 90s but now its 13 years since then and things have changed. OK, cdj2000 has a few problems and it doesnt feel as solid as cdj1000 but in other hand comparing those two I prefer cdj2000 because it has better functionality which satisfies me.

Please tell me a product out in market that will give you lifetime waranty that will not get broken. Any time, any day, something might get happen. A few years ago, I bought a KP3. At first everything was fine. After a couple of months the pad wasnt working properly. I was pressing it at the right and and the led on the pad or the sound of it was like I was pressing it to the left. I got it back at the shop and they send it to the technicians. After a month it came back saying it was tested and it was ok. I plugged it but still same problem. I got really angry (I was younger back then!). Imediately I went back at the shop and plagged it in a cdj800 over there so that they see live what the problem is cause first time I only explain them by words. The owner of the shop agreed with me that my KP3 had a problem at the pad. Then I told him that this is crap. I also told that technicians kept my KP3 for a month with no results and that I want a new one. First he called the technicians to see what they did to it. The technicians said that there was a problem but they fixed it. Then he explained them, that the problem still exists and they said that either send it back to see it again or call the manager. We called the manager. After explaining to him the problem and that it just came fixed and still its not working, I said that the waranty is still on and that I want a new one. At first he said that he cant do that. Then I suggest to him either change it or else I would go by law to claim a new one and maybe some money for time of waiting. Suddenly he asked me to record a video showing it and if its faulty he will come back to me. After a day, he called the shop that he will send a new one and once I get it to send the broken one. Since then my new KP3 was fine.

All I am saying is that when you buy this kind of equipment, you should expect everything.  And if warranty is off, expect to pay it as well to fix it. That is a risk you take when you buy it.

Sorry for the long post but this is how I feel. Maybe for you cdj2000 is not good or reliable for the value of money. I respect that. In the other hand there are also cdj900, cdj850, cd450 to decide which one fits you most. There is also other brands to choose from expect pioneer. Its up to you..

Dimitris

Sorry, I ment cdj350 instead of 450 :p

Hey Puls/Gavin, what do you think about this? What should I do?

THX

Hi Puls, short info in between:

Maybe I'm more close to the issue, but only MAYBE! I played tonight a 3 hour set minimal and tech-minimal in MT mode and it worked perfectly. On big PA absolutly no probs or sound issues. In the end I become a bit more melodic, mory housy and trancy... Maybe I imagine it but I say the sound become a bit more "dirty". After me a Trance DJ started playing and he got real problems. Sound was a bit skipping and sounds "digital". He enabled MT. after his set I talked to him and a few other DJs and it figuerd out, that mostly the Trance DJ's and melodic house DJs has issues.

This would confirm my initial suspicion with issues at melodic stuff. I'm back Tuesday and I hope I can make a short set recording in the evening at home with trance and melodic stuff. If my suspicion is right, I will cut out a short time where you can here it and would send it to you, so you can hear it by yourself! I can't make it earlier. sorry. You'll hear from me!

Greetings!

For me MT is ok. Usually I don't go more than 2% in pitch range and I have MT off. Yesterday I played tracks that I had to pitch 5% or 5.5% and mix with other tracks that were at 0% pitch range. I did mix tracks with both players having MT on or one player MT off and the other player MT on. Absolutely fine. My mixing set was 3hrs and a half. I have firmware v4.10. I play with USB stick in player 1 and link in player 2. All tracks exported via RB v1.5.2

HI, I do have to concur with Xador in that whilst the MT is more reliable from a mixing point of view i too have observed a decline in audio quality when deployed. It seems to occur when you use the platter to fine tune tempo which I would think may simply be a limitation of the function as it is digitally reproducing the track when played faster / slower. Sadly for me I still think it is unworkable but I do appreciate we have progressed. 

i'm totally agree with paulm72. the problem apperar when using the jog to adjust.

Hi @ all!

First @ all, it has nothing to do with the platter! It worked fine with minimal and platter adjusting!

I have recorded a short sample with some Trance, first with MT, then without:

http://soundcloud.com/dj-xador/cdj-2000-issue

You can CLEARLY hear the problems. I have nothing done, no loops were set, no cue pionts were called, no hot cues were called also, no platter adjustinge were made, absolutely nothing!

Just USB @ the same player, playlist, track was choosen and played. And by the way, it doesn't matter if it's played by USB or Recordbox!!! It happens the same. And as you here in the second part, the MP3 ist totaly fine, 320 kbit/s from beatport I guess, but it also doen't matter, it happens also with min. 40 ore more mp3s I have tested too. And it doen't matter, if the mp3s were loaded via iTunes, Beatport or were recorded from CD by myself. Pitch is about 3% or something, but it doesn't matter to, witch pitch is chosen.

I personally think, that is has something to do how "complex" the tracks are. As I wrote yesterday, with more "simple" music, mens less tracks in the track, it'll work perfect! Trance is much melodic and has alot of sounds in it, maybe the player cannot hadle this?!?

I'll keep on trying with other genres too and will also test diferent behaviors @ the player.

I hope you guys from Pioneer can give me a response and Pioneer is able to repair it.

THX, greetings!

Thought it were only mine that didn't behave since some ppl here said things were smooth and pretty fine with new firmware.

Xador, I don't need to wait 2 hours for those problems to appear here. My tunes are always house jackin/funky/disco/deep stuff. Never away from that.

I am really sad about my CDJs. I just can't look at them the same way I did when I bought... This is so frustrating! Sometimes I feel like i went way back in time and I just dont know how to mix anymore! It feels like a eternal fight with the plates and things won't go smooth...    :((((

I'm just sad mates... I want my CDJs to work so I can open the cases, do what I know best and trust on my gear! ... and more, to be proud of them again!

heeellpppp! 

It will not sound the same as the original if the pitch is adjusted, I cant see how it ever will?  I'm no expert on how MT works, but it must be changing the sample rate to be able to do what it does, so hence you notice it.  BTW I'm not jumping in to defend MT but pointing out that sqeezing or pulling the sample points apart is always going to be noticable is it not?

Maybe I 'm using it wrong but - from what I've seen. It does not hold tempo for longer than maybe 15 seconds.

@Xador - in your Soundcloud sample, you said you were at 3% pitch, was that  -3%?

I've identified the track you're using, I'll buy it to test it myself.  The Jitter - yes folks, Jitter - that I can hear in your sample does sound like MT at work, but this is what I would expect to hear BEFORE firmware v4.10 was released.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but have you tried re-flashing your CDJs to 4.10 again?  Else it may be worth trying to get the Mods to supply a re-flashable version of the firmware just to rule that out?

I know it doesn't matter what track is used, but if we're both using the same one it makes comparisons easier.

I play 90% melodic trance and so was feeling most of the MT pain until firmware v4.10 was released.

I'm not concerned with the other DJs, here I'm talking with you about your unit so let's focus on that.  I don't care about source either.  A lot of people here think it's a big issue but I think that's a misconception.  For the record, mine will be Beatport WAV over RekordBox Pro Link.

And again I ask, you mentioned your sample track was at 3% pitch.  Was that minus 3% (-3%)?

lol thanks, got in there before I did ;)

I just had a bit of a test, and yes that Aly & Fila track really doesn't respond very well to a -3% MT tempo shift.  Anyway, I mixed into another -3% track, then mixed out of that into one which I had to pitch to +3%, so there was now an entire 6% between tracks, and the sound was fine.  It was all melodic, uplifting trance.

As you said before, Jitter is mostly seen in very particular genres - the thing is, I think it's more specific, it seems to only affect a number of tracks within a genre.  Before firmware v4.10, the Jitter was terrible, and apparent in EVERY track.  Now it only seems to rear its head on certain ones, in certain pitch ranges, which have a very certain sound.

I know you won't like this idea, but this is still a major, major improvement.  I'm a trance DJ and I'm happy.  Up until a few weeks ago when v4.10 was released, I didn't have a little red dot in my forum avatar image.  All of the Jitter-reporting crew here are happy too.

The best thing here is to report to Pioneer the issue, and provide track samples so they have the chance to investigate.

@Xador, I can understand your anger. But if you said that before pioneer released firm4.10 I would understand. Ok it is not perfect, but it's obvious that with latest firmware master tempo had improvements and  for me it gives hope that in future cdj2000 might get better (and I am not talking just for the MT). 

You get the basic problem! I wouldn't be so angry if anyone from pioneer would say, there is a problem and they gonna fix it! All I hear from Pioneer is:

"Everything is perfect and fine!" This I've heard since nearly 3 years for the CDJs and 2 years for the DJM 2000!

And I heard this before 4.10 and after! You are right, 4.10 is an improvment, but when you playing an a big PA on a big gig, YOU NEED TO HAVE 100% WORKING EQUIPMENT, not, it is a bit better now. When songs jittering or beats and timings skipping than you cannot go to the audience and say: "Folks, I'm sorry, but my 8k equipment sucks!" And we've also spent a lot of money.

By the way, I've reinstalled 4.10 again on all players and it's not better. You hear the sample I posted earlier.

I hope someone from Pioneer gets it finally now and give an answere about it!

@ dream treez dude stop lie yourself. 

no need to be a troll oreste, dream treez is just expressing a valid opinion, to accuse him of lying is just small time. i'm sorry you're having problems xador, maybe something didn't update with your firmware update but i can assure you, as one of the vocal critics of the old master tempo, that it is now fully fixed on my decks and also on the decks of everyone else i know (14 units). i understand that this is frustrating to you but you must understand that most of us don't have this problem anymore.

by the way, the cdjs only came out around december 2009 so that's just over 2 years in my book.

Let's be serious and don't assault each other...

@ Phil 909: I'm definitly not the only one, because I talked to other DJ's the last weeks. All have updated to 4.10 and some of them tried it also twice. The problem is, no one from Pioneer is reacting. I cannot use MT because I'm uncertain if it's going good or not. I would use it, because I normally handle with melodic stuff and here it would be a big benifit to have master tempo! Maybe it is a problem with the player sold in my country, but i cannot imagine.

Xador, Just an FYI, Some of the guys from Pioneer were away all week and still may be, Thats probably why they have not been around too much lately on the forums other then Gavin

Ok. I mostly mix tracks 118pbm up to 127bpm. However I also mix tracks 80bpm up to 140bpm. I never mix a track when pitch is more than +/- 2%. MT is meant to be for tracks that you wanna pitch a lot and you don't want to change the key of the track. But all I know is that when a track is like "for example pitch +/-  5%, the track wont be the same. In some way it is distorted.

I am starting to think that maybe there is a difference between the units that were sold till now. Is it possible that it may have happened? I guess only Pioneer would know that and I am not sure they would like to say there were big lots of faulty ones or with worse components sold.... I really can't understand why some people say their cdjs are working great meanwhile mine sometimes behave like a cheap controller toy or something. 

I red something on this forum about a guy complaining about the number of Pioneer releases. A new product every day but they dont get this one working right. Its like a soupopera that goes on and on with everybody attacking and blaming each other over here BUT people should know nobody would be complaining here if there wasn't a problem going on! I still think I can have that big smile (the day I bought these cdjs) back on my face if they take this as a high priority: to get these cdjs working great for good! So the only thing I can think about is that maybe we really have different units taht were sold around the world. I really mean it: the ones I got have crazy behaviours since the very beggining. And I can feel Xadors pain cause its hard to play with a gear that you dont trust anymore. It feels like standing on a thin line high above the ground not knowing when it can split in two and make you splash your face on the ground with the whole crowd looking at you and laughing...

I think this possiblility of having slighty different components inside the cjds should be considered and questioned too cause I can't figure out why some people have problems and some not. Or maybe something with the updating process?? All possibilities should be considered and analized by WHO SOLD this product. Theres too much confusion and people complaining to just be ignored the way it has been......

Right, firstly...

@Xador:  I'm amazed you picked this time to mention your views on Master Tempo.  v4.10 was released several weeks ago and it was a MASSIVE improvement - MASSIVE MASSIVE improvement - to all the previous versions of the firmware, as far as MT was concerned.  You cannot say that Pioneer have not acknowledged the problem - they have.  There was a note from the engineers detailing the problems with Jitter when using MT a few months ago, and then in mid-January it benefited from extreme improvements.

Secondly, does no-one bother reading my posts?  I just detailed how the track in question here does seem to baffle even the latest version of MT.  So like I said, it seems that certain sounding tracks are still a problem.  I'm not going to repeat myself further.  Constructive engagement is required.

@Pulse: I'm a bit confused about your statement. You said on 1st Feb. to me:

"Complaining about a problem is fine and dandy if you just want to complain, but if you'd like us to fix the problem, we need as much detail as you can provide!  Thanks!"

So I do, take time and give exactly reviews about and rec a sample. Then I hear nothing from anyone, ok, you were on travel, I don't know.

Then you say me, everything is normal @ Trance? I feel a bit conned. So all the time I investet was in vain. And then you say me, maybe it'll be fixed in future hardware? Do I get it right?

By the way, this probs not only @ Trance, it is also very noticeable for example @ Minimal (Beat dropping, jittering, skipping).

I hope, everyone calms down now and you can give me an answere, if there will come a solutioin for the CDJ 2000. I'm sorry, maybe for some house DJs on smaller PAs or home environment this update fits, but for us it is unfortunately still not useable although it is an improvement.

THX