So what is the difference between quantized and analyzed in this context?

I use quantize and talking about loops.... all mine with quantize on, tracks analized in rekordbox on normal mode have to be fixed. And Im also talking about the beatmatching! I set up the perfect sinc between tracks, then throw a loop in the mix and have to fix the pitch. After heading out the loop and start cutting frequencies on old one I have to fix pitch again

Its a forever fix fix fix fix fix fix that i DONT need on other hardware. And these are mine!!!! And I paid loads for it!!!! And its damn frustrating and its driving me really nuts! Not to mention the freezing...

Ah! by the way! a new product is out! CDJ 850! Thanks a lot Pioneer!

djm 850 sorry.. Im just really pissed off....

@ Johnboy - I mentioned on the other post the possibility of us having different hardware. Of some important components inside the CDJs being different for some people and they (Pulse or Gaving I dont remember) answered me: No. I really can't understand why some people complain about drifting here while others simply do not. And its not a problem with my skills also cause I am too old for that. I am NO noobie putting my hands on decks and I DIDNT have such problems with cjds 1000.

Its impossible having such matter being treated like this. Im not blaming the guys that represent Pioneer here but hey: there MUST be a problem with some units if the behaviour of the cdjs are so different! And I am NOT saying a thing related with master tempo cause that feature on my cdjs are considered GONE! If I could I would change for a unit without that button cause its pure crap.

In relation to your reported drift issues - why aren't you using Quantize?

I can answer this one Gavin, Because for the most part RB does a crap job with the beat grid, I don't have the time to go through 22,000 tracks to line up a beat grid, I just shut quantize off across the board on everything and do old fashion looping myself which stays on point, When I was using quantized loops, sometimes they were on, sometimes off, made it sound like shit because you never knew what part of the song was right, or wrongly quantized in RB. I have given it a shot, even again recently and its the same thing, so many tracks look great in RB in the beginning and drift off course towards the end, Again, I don't have the time to download tracks, import, analyze and then play with a beat grid just so the 2000's can loop properly for me. and I confirmed the above issue, 2 separate tracks, I got the beat grid perfect, turned on quantize and they drift after a minute or so, no matter what I keep the pitch control at to fine tune it, I always have to correct it. If I use the same track on both decks, it's fine. So very weird issue indeed

Pulse, I agree, even if it was 500 tracks, its not worth the time for me personally to have to mess with inaccurate beat grids when I am perfectly capable as a veteran dj to loop on my own and leave quantizing off :)   especially since, like you said, I am not looping a whole lot during mixes. I only mentioned what I said because Gavin asked why some people do not use quantizing, Thats why I don't  

@ Pulse: .wav, cause I dont like to use compressed files. To me music is music and I want the whole original frequencies there.

@ BriChi: I always adjust my tracks grid one by one just after buying them. My working way is like this: buy, analize in normal mode, adjust grid, set up cue, set up hot cues and loops. When I  check the loops on rekordbox after creating them they sound just perfect!

So what we have here is another cdj2000 feature that simply wont work! I am starting to wonder what works great on these cdjs!!!!!!!!!!!

But again I logged today to post my new thread after a problem I had just right now while playing some new tracks @ home. This one was the weirdest ever!!!!!!!!! Won't do it here cause it's not related to the subject here and I dont want it deleted.

Yes pulse, like I said before, quantized is always on. 

Yes the quantize is lighten up on screen and in options it also shows on. All my tracks have the quantized option enabled when analized.

... and to be honest, like Johnboy said: if the feature doesn't work it shouldn't be there. It has to be accurate otherwise its useless and shouldnt be sold as a feature. 

i also had the problems with quantize loops and tracks who have an accurate bpm and not stay in time when i play on the cdj 2000 i think the engineers better make an new  update for the cdj 2000 for the pitch and that when i set a quantize loop to stay in time for what are the loop buttons? only for the design? 4 and 8 beatloops are not use able on the cdj 2000 maybe with the next update   that we can hold two tracks in time and  not to have make corrections all five seconds i have an djm 2000 but when i make transitions i don t can use the effects and make an creative mix  because i allways  have to pray and lock that the two tracks not going off beat!!! this is very frustrating @PULSE why make a video everyone knows the problem here .I like to make long transitions over 2 minutes but with the cdj 2000 it doesn t work!!!!!!!

@ jambapark: agreeed!!!!!! that is what i meant and was almost begging for Pulse to direct the issue to the engeneers! I have the exact same problem and instead of making creative mixes all my work is fix fix fix and pay attention to the horrible drifts of this cdjs. 

And seriously Pulse, if you don't notice this sort of problem over there I am pretty sure there must be a serious difference on units sold along these years cause everybody I show what happens tells me its not a behaviour for such level of hardware. From what I already red here in the forum tons of people already pointed the finger at the problem but you guys refuse to pass it to the tecnical team so they can have a serious look at it...

If you guys that filter content to later pass them to engineers already chose not to do it for good like: "we wont pass such problem to engeneers!"  Then I can simply quit and sell my cdjs.

Otherwise we keep waiting for a fix that may never come out... not fair making us waiting for something that will never happen! Do you guys think we enjoy spending our time here complaining? Do you think we are noobs that don't know how to beatmatch tracks like some already said here before? It is frustrating and exausting trying to show people a problem THAT IS THERE and they just keep ignoring it and saying.. no its all fine.

So if its fine with yours I BET there were units with big fault sold during all this time because, I swear, mine do not behave like my 1ks used to do...

Pulse did say though:

Both mine are from april/2010

Since then their behaviour have been everywhere. Each time they release a new firmware something different happens. I really don't believe the cdjs are exactly the same cause some people just say they don't have problems while others say they do. Since the firmware releases are the same they should behave exactly the same when upgrading. And I remember one of my old firmwares being really MUCH more stable than the ones that came after it. But since they say we can't go back then it's just this endless waiting for a decent release that would hopefully fix things for me and others that have the same problems.... long waiting I should say...

Sorry so late Pulse... I use only 320 MP3's. That has never mattered before in the previous players

Stroboscpe_ why would they put features on that don't work? it's bad ass to use for vocal tricks to extending mixes. BTW I'm not blaming the guys on here. I know they're reps. I just want the shit fixed by Pioneer! My CDJ400's tracked better and didn't drift at all so there is def a problem. To the other mention to GAVIN if the components inside are unequal- who's fault is that? Pioneer. I guess I'll services them. Tune up. Whatever. Now the Technics are dead and these over night loser dj's with controllers and their Mac Books will def take over if the CDJ's are not perfect. That would be a crime! Fucking sync buttons! Are u kidding me?! Get real!

I think they people that don't have problems just prob aren't mixing long enough, shit Tiesto mixes 64 beats each mix! That's 30 seconds! U might not realize the drift and sorry to the light hearted but most complaints on this entire forum are pretty stupid like "how do I turn it on" duh. Seriously, it came with a manual! I shouldn't have to make a video. They drift period end of story. If I have to make one that means Pioneer techs are even testing them before releasing them. It's only $4000.00 worth of CD players. No big deal is all I get from here?! BS!

Oh god If Pioneer makes a CDJ3000 that's better who the hell will by our bunk 2000's?! Then we spend $6000 and I bet u they'll still have  issues! Pioneer is putting out too much gear right now to focus on any one product! Chill out! Hate me all u want reps but it's the truth and u should know it.

 maybe for dj who make short transitions they cdj 2000 are okay but when your playing deeper sound you have to make longer transitions and then the mix is more creative (not like a party dj fader up other fader down with commercial sound)at thats the problem here other people don't have problems they are these who make short transitions and we with the problems stay longer in mix with 2 tracks and thats right pioneer release so much stuff better they make an new update to fix these problems with the drifting cdj 2000 maybe thats the reason why so much dj s switched of to controller with traktor or serato or use technics turntables with external sound card to control these because with these cdj 2000 you don t can play a set without fail

Out of interest are you seeing this drift when playing from rekordbox  or memory sticks/ sd cards?

there has to something specific to you as i played a 7 hour set on friday with no issues.

i play with mp3 320 kbps i export my tracks to an usb device or an sd card analysed in normal mode i don t know my tracks stay only in time when i mix two with the same bpm and pitch on 0.00%  when i have a different about one bpm to two tracks i pitched one track 0.80% they don t stay in time and i have to correct and these corrections are still sounds so bad in a set i don t can mix one hour and record these because i have to correct and the set is not a clear dj set i don t know are you guys can mix one hour with know doubelbass in the set ? i don't can maybe i won't go back and sell the cdj 2000 and get back on two technics 1210 i don t know @ phil the last time when i send my cdj 2000 two the technical support  because the adjust knob was damaged one year playing at the knob they was so slack when your turning the jog dail the adjust knob also turning with it and the best thing at all is i wait two and half month to get them back !!!!!

I am usings USB stick and play mp3s and wavs. I also make long transitions sometimes 2 or 3 minutes. I dont have a drift problem especially now with new firmware. I remember I used to have a few problems with firm 4.01.

Just played a gig on Saturday.  I am using only AIFF files.  I did not have any unusual behavior or drift.  I ride my mixes for about 2-3 minutes normally.  I make only a few very minor corrections with the jog wheel during a typical mix.

I love the CDJ-2000s.  Best players I have ever owned.

i also want to say that but in this time i can t @ fuse promote you wraped all your tracks in abelton live or only the tracks who drift ?

@ jambapark    No, I do not warp all of my tracks in Ableton Live.   Only the rare track that does not have a stable tempo.

Here is what I do with my new music:

1.  Download new tracks and rename the files in my preferred format.

2.  Open Rekordbox and load the tracks.  I then use the grid adjustment feature to line up the first down beat to the grid.  Then I use the metronome feature to listen to the beat alignment near the end of the track.  If the beat grid drifts off, then I use the stretch or squeeze grid buttons to align the end.  Then I will quickly spot check the beat alignment in random points through the middle of the track, while listening to the metronome.  If the beats are on grid, then I am finished.  If the beats are not holding on the grid, then I go to Step 3.

3.  Load track into Ableton Live and set the warp markers as needed.  Then I render the warped track to a new AIFF file.  Then I go back to Step 2 and repeat the procedure, but this time the grid will Line up perfectly.

It is very rare that I must use Ableton Live to make this sort of correction.   But it does happen, and I am glad I have this option available.

hey  i tried this today i mix two tracks one 122.00 bpm 0.00% and the other 123.00 bpm the faster track i pitched down to 122.00 bpm -0.78% this tracks don t stay in time for a half minute okay i tried it with -0.80% and the tracks stayed in time maybe longer then a minute okay i tried it with -0.82% and the track stayed also only a half minute on beat . okay the track is a mp3 320 kbps and in rekordbox analysed and the two tracks have not a variable tempo. one fact i think with the pitch is because i only can go from -0.78% to -0.80% to-0.82% maybe i think preciser where the cdj 2000 when we can go with the pitch -0.78% to -0.79% to-0.80% maybe with the next update .maybe some  guy here on the forum can tell me how they can mix on the cdj 2000 two tracks and old it perfect in the mix for two minutes without corrections 

It would be impossible to make the current model of the CDJ-2000 have 0.01% increments for the pitch control.  That type of change requires new hardware.  Pioneer would have to engineer a new pitch slider with 2 times as many contact points inside.  This is not easy, or cheap, and may not even be practical.  I think it would be phyically difficult to make smaller increments on the CDJ pitch slider unless Pioneer made the slider even longer.  But this would take up more space on the unit, and possible require an even larger form factor for a future unit if they were trying to include that feature.

If I remember correctly, Gavin said that the CDJ-2000 has 600 contact points in the pitch slider.  (Correct me if wring)

So if you wanted there to be 0.01% increments, then we would theoretically need 1200 contact points to maintain a +/- 6% range.  Otherwise, you would have to reduce the pitch range to +/- 3% which would not be very practical for mixing music unless the tracks were always very similar in original tempo.

Sorry but it's really offensive to hear that Pulse. I learned to beatmatch on analogue gear so I really don't have to swallow that sort of unpolite comment. And I think many other guys that did not start mixing yesterday will also.  A good DJ equipment has to give him resourses to beatmatch even without touching the plate. Yes its pretty hard job to make tracks go locked forever without a fix but we are talking here about 2 mins (bit more bit less). I was always able to do it naturally on turntables and all the cdjs I had before. But it is a forever struggling with these CDJs 2000 now.

You may not be able to see people you are talking with here but that doesnt mean you can treat everybody as wannabes. I am on this for way too long now (and I believe many others here also) just to listen to somebody saying we need to fix our mixing all the time through plate or we may go for a software with shitty sinc stuff.

And to be honest, each one with a different mixing style but if somebody messes too much with the plate means to me they just dont have a pretty good skill with the pitch. I learned this way @ the old times and I prefer doing it with just one hand instead of two. If you think it is normal having to push back and forward the jogwheel all the time then you are wrong.

Pulse is right... you can't complain if a track doesn't stay in time for 2 min! you rely to much on the bpm read out ...If you would use your ears, there wouldn't be a problem.

I really can't see what's the big deal.. Its what djs do... alter the pitch , and hit the platter... If you don't like that, then you need to use sync.

Please focus on real problems , and not on things like this.

In order to sync 2 track together apart from counting I need sometimes to adjust the plater a bit forward or backwards. Mostly I have to push it a bit forward (I dont know why but maybe because press play a bit early). Other than that, once the tracks are synced sometimes it might need a bit of correction for several reasons. One reason might be because the track that is going out is slowing the beat.  For me, my ears is the most valuable tool concerning mixing. Use them to make the right correction. If a track is slowing the beat, I might move the platter a bit or I might increase the pitch a bit and I dont care if one cdj says 120.00 and the other 120.02 or whatever.

@ TheOne -  Maybe you never put your hands on analog gear bro... They just dont have bpm counter. I dont use those guys for syncing tracks, especially when the 2k's counters move by themselves.

@ Pulse - I really do not focus on that bro.. couldnt avioid noticing them moving by themselves though. I dont trust those counters but when I related the "osmosis" happening on my pitch it was cause I really think if youre not messing with it then it should be stationary, stopped and not moving. 

Yes Pulse its true I was way way more confindent on analog gear. But never ever had prroblems on cdjs 1000 and even started liking the other features i got with the digital age: making loops and using fast cue marks to make hyper creative mixes. My ears are the same and Im not THAT old yet to start loosing their fidelity ;) 

All I said is that I am capable to keep tracks locked for long time with no need to mess with the plater on analog and 1000s. But with my 2ks its a eternal struggle... 

oh and about the resourses... i simply mentioned them as a fine tuned gear that does what your hands tells them to do. Its not what we get in many features the 2ks offer. To me a feature is something that works 100% not 90 or 75%. It has or it doesnt! 

I still think there must be something related with hardware or the firmware upgrading process. And I say that because in an older firmware (yes it had many other bugs) but my pitch was way way more tighter than it is right now. Maybe you guys can ask the engeneers if any failure on firmware upgrading can cause that sort of gear reaction. I really cant figure out why some people say yes and some say no way! And my ears are not crazy... my cdjs drift more than the usual!!!! Could you please pass that question to them Pulse???

[EDIT] As I told you in your other thread, this is a family forum and your profanity will not be tolerated here. Your criticisms have been noted. [/EDIT]

i also think that pioneer needs to correct this fail with the pitch i hope they done with the next firmware update

Sorry, but I just don't see the problems you are describing.  My players are working great.

Just out of curiosity, are you guys using MP3 or WAV files?

i use mp3 in 320 kbps  and i see no drifting wen in the  mp3 or wav or aiff  tracks but on the cdj 2000 is this an other story :-(

Come on, since firmware ver 4.10 there is no drift and MT "jitter" has improved by miles comparing with previous firmwares. Ok, there are issues with cdj2000 and it doesnt feel as solid as cdj1000mk3, but give them a rest. In firmware 4.10 there were major changes and I hope in next firmware will be even more. I know pioneer was late. Its already been 2 years to see improvements in MT functionality. 

@ everyone in this thread   -   I have been DJing for about 12 years now.  I learned how to mix on vinyl, like many of us.  My first CDJ player was the Pioneer CDJ-100.  I purchased the CDJ player so that I could play tracks which my friends produced but could not afford to have pressed to vinyl.  One of the very first things I noticed about using a CDJ player vs. vinyl was that no matter how hard I tried, the CDJ player always required more manual adjustments than my Technics 1200 turntables required.  The reason for this is very, very simple.  The Technics 1200 has an analog pitch control.  Any CDJ player in the world has a digital pitch control.  The most basic definition of analog vs. digital technology can explain why the digital player needs more manual correction.  I am not going to spend the time typing out this explanation of analog vs. digital right now.  If you care, you can Google the subject.

Bottom line is that a digital pitch control with a precision level of 0.02% over a +/- 6% range might not always give you the accuracy of an analog pitch control on a Technics 1200.  (Also, I think everyone here should take a few moments and Google the words  Accuracy   &   Precision.   These words do NOT mean the same thing.)

The point I am trying to make is this:    I have owned several Pioneer CDJ players.   the CDJ-100,  the CDJ-1000 MK2, and now the CDJ-2000.  I find that the CDJ-2000 does the same or better than any of my previous players at maintaining beatmatching.  Do I need to make manual corrections?  Yes, of course.  But I have always needed to make corrections when playing CDs on CDJ players.  This is nothing new.

So should we have a button for switching off the BPM display then..................LOL

In order to hide the BPM display you can always use a sticky tape... :d

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=black+sticky+tape&hl=en&biw=1066&bih=582&tbm=isch&tbnid=yTWIQYRvh5lDgM:&imgrefurl=http://www.printedadhesivetapes.com/black-adhesive-packaging-tape-14-rolls/&docid=WhI3zuHS-RR0GM&imgurl=http://printedadhesivetapes.com/wp-content/themes/shopperpress/thumbs/black-adhesive-tape-packaging.JPG&w=457&h=609&ei=SLFcT6K8Dcmo8QOzw6DqDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=835&vpy=173&dur=4749&hovh=259&hovw=194&tx=106&ty=119&sig=118019100719704187936&page=2&tbnh=138&tbnw=133&start=18&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:18

You can't can you .......?!

Those who've been around this board will understand my sarcasm