Forums/Pioneer Gear/CDJ-2000

Answered

CDJ 2000 vs Nexus: Scandal

Nicolas Schmitz
asked this on November 05, 2012 05:19

Hi guys,

the more I read about Nexus the more I get frustrated with my CDJ 2000. Pioneer is talking about 'significant improvement' in the Nexus Master Tempo vs the CDJ 2000 mk1. How can they improve something that is just binary, it works or it just doesn't work.

As soon as the 2000s were released I sold my CDJ 1000s and bought the 2000s straight away. A couple of years later Pioneer is telling me the model I bought at such a high price was kind of a draft, it is discontinued and if I want the real thing that is definitely the Nexus I should go for. This is ugly behaviour. AT LEAST COULD THEY MAKE AN OFFER ON OUR CDJ 2000S TO HELP US BUY THE NEW ONES???

 

Comments

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tasos
Believe me, you don't want to buy the nexus players at this time... Stay with the mk1 which are great players right now with 4.2 update.
November 05, 2012 06:38
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Phil
Silver

is this post for real?

November 05, 2012 06:49
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Nicolas Schmitz

Of course it is real, just read the Nexus description to make up your mind...

High-quality Master Tempo keeps sound faithful to the original 
DJs will be truly impressed with Pioneer´s best-ever quality Master Tempo. The CDJ-2000nexus uses a new algorithm to lock the track´s pitch while they manipulate the tempo, for sound that is more faithful to the original tone. 

What was it not supposed to do that in the Mk1?

 

Improved Quantize: Quantize uses the track´s beat grid to ensure loops and cues are set and triggered in time with music, with 100 per cent accuracy. And DJs can now access Quantize via its own dedicated ON/OFF button. 

Was the Mk1 not supposed to do that??

 

November 05, 2012 07:32
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tasos

@Phil, i never expect a better price just because i bought previous players from pioneer, but i expect from my new eqipment to work properly.

November 05, 2012 07:40
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Leee

I agree that you should keep your CDJ 2000 mk1's.

Trust me - Do not buy the CDJ 2000 Nexus decks.

November 05, 2012 08:00
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BriChi
Silver

KEEP THE MK1'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 05, 2012 08:01
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Phil
Silver

sorry tasos, i was referring to Nicolas, the original poster.

Nicolas, the mark 1 is very nearly 3 years old. there have been improvements Pioneer have made in that time to MT and these have made their way to the nexus. simple.

the 'improved' quantise means that hot cues can now be quantised and there's a dedicated on/off button. the mark 1 never had that feature (although the in/out point of loops were able to be quantised).

i really don't see what the 'scandal' is in pioneer releasing a new model, 3 years after the original, with a few improvements. 3 years is a very reasonable shelf life.  if you think that's scandalous then i guess you didn't buy the iPad 3 (outdated after 6 months!)

November 05, 2012 08:23
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pope

By now, we all know the first version(s) of a complex firmware-based new product are going to be buggy.  This is why most seasoned users will wait for signs of stability before upgrading.  With my 2000mk-1s, I fall in this camp.  A friend just got Nexus's because he's moving to media-based playback, and as a new purchase it makes sense to go with the latest and ride the firmware upgrade train.

WRT: MT:  The DSP performance has been upgraded in the Nexus, so I would expect better sonic performance overall, especially with MT.  How this relates to a scandal is beyond me.  It's like saying my 386 pc can't play counterstrike.  When I see it's time to upgrade, I expect better performance and new features across the board.

What remains "scandalous" (for lack of a better term) is the lack of FLAC and 24/96k support on a device that plays media files.  Oh, and those cheapo tactile switches used on the cue/play buttons across the entire range... what's up with that?  Glad I know how to solder.

November 05, 2012 08:43
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Nicolas Schmitz

@Brichi,Leee & taso: thank you, it does make me feel a bit better to read that we should stick to the Mk1

@Phil: the MT function was implemented successfully on the CDJ 1000s much better than the CDJ 2000s, it was just working basically. Simple. Therefore something was done wrong in the CDJ 2000. Now they probably fixed the bug in the Nexus which I suspect is a hardware issue. If this was only software they would have fixed the problem on the 2000s a lot earlier. Basically selling this stuff at this price to pros and having the MT function not working is not good enough my friend. This is why they should offer something substantial for people to upgrade. When I broke my Bose headphones that were 2 years old the shop offered me 100£ to buy new ones and they were not failing they always worked perfectly which is obviously not the case of the CDJ 2000. When Toyota released a car with some defaults on the brakes they called back millions of vehicles. What has Pioneer done for us?

November 05, 2012 08:47
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Phil
Silver

the MT on the 2000 was improved in a firmware update last year i think. in my opinion it worked just as well as the 1000's - i have owned both. it's not perfect, no real time MT algorithm is ever going to be... the nexus MT isn't perfect either, neither is the one used by Traktor or Ableton. there are plenty of people who are happy with the MT on the mk1, it does work.

a car with faulty brakes is somewhat of a more serious issue than pitch correction on a cd player. would Toyota ever recall a car for a fault on one of the functions on the cd player?

November 05, 2012 09:04
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Nicolas Schmitz

Phil your statement is just ridiculous I'm afraid. The main function of a car is to drive... the MT function on a pro DJ cd player is just as essential as the brakes on a car... But I get the picture, if there was a faulty model of Porsche released with a speed limitation at 160km/h there would always be a few fools stating it is just working fine... This would be a proper scandal though. The only difference here is that the market for this kind of cd players is very limited and the people who have been conned can't make the appropriate noise, so Pioneer just don't care.

November 05, 2012 09:26
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Phil
Silver

"the MT function on a pro DJ cd player is just as essential as the brakes on a car... "  LOL.

it's not even close to being as essential. if you want to carry on this analogy to a car, it's probably closer to an electric window. a nice to have but not essential.

anyway, it works as well as can be expected and you can still mix perfectly well without it, including harmonic mixing as proved by a generations of vinyl djs who are happy to DJ without 'brakes'.

November 05, 2012 10:05
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Nicolas Schmitz

yeah yeah as mobile phone, gps and so on... generations lived without so not essential... of course Phil, of course. Clearly that is a bright demonstration. Thank you. Keep walking...

November 05, 2012 10:58
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Phil
Silver
No problem. And thanks for providing me with one of the biggest LOLs I've seen on this board in a long time.
November 05, 2012 11:36
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movingzachb

(Haven't read all the replies in this thread yet) I can understand that type of frustration. I myself have also been a bit confused as my first thought when reading the feature list of the Nexus was to see what I 'didn't' have on my CDJ-2000. I am curious about the 'master tempo' control if it is software controlled it is certainly able to be adjusted in a software update I would think. 

November 05, 2012 12:42
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movingzachb

I am also assuming the improved DSP is an improved hardware chip - not software right?

November 05, 2012 12:50
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BriChi
Silver

Probably a new chip, Not sure though, The best part is is the new and improved MT has broken the decks when using MP3's, Its such a great feature, MT causes the decks to completely lock up when banging away at hot starts with an mp3 file

November 05, 2012 13:05
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fullenglishpint

DSP - Digital Signal Processor. Essentially the processor in the CDJ. Just like the processor in your laptop, it has a certain clock speed and limitations on how much it can do at once. The nexus is a new version and 3 years younger, hence it has a faster DSP which is capable of more. MT is a very processor intensive task as anyone who's ever used Traktor on an older machine will attest, and maintaining SQ up to ±16% while also providing ultra low latency playback control is not something to be taken lightly.

@OP, you want the mk1's to be recalled because they're not as good as the nexus (FW bugs aside)? Good luck with that.

November 05, 2012 13:11
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Nicolas Schmitz
@fullenglishpint Sorry to repeat myself but if this was rocket science and required the last technology how do you explain that the MT was working perfectly on 6 years old Cdj 1000?
November 05, 2012 19:26
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Sammy

Because the 1000's simply are simple , they don't require alot of random stuff that only eats processor power for not alot of good.

(Talking about the huge screen , jog illumination and USB browsing) Those things take allot of handling (not even speaking about link).

Those CDJ's are like computers , thus they hang and fail.

November 07, 2012 12:23
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Leee

"Those CDJ's are like computers , thus they hang and fail."

You're not wrong there but at £1500 each they shouldn't!

If I paid £1500 for a pc it could do alot more things than these decks and still not "hang and fail"

November 07, 2012 12:29
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BriChi
Silver

exactly, for this much money, they better never hang and fail, I expect that kinda garbage from $800 denons, not $2400 Pioneers

November 07, 2012 12:32
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Leee

We have to be careful BriChi. We're not welcome to our own opinion (unless we're not praising Pioneer products) here without the gods deleting our posts!

November 07, 2012 12:36
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BriChi
Silver

LOL

November 07, 2012 12:36
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Sammy

Thus and Android Tablet has less fail then a Windows PC.

and Ubuntu (Linux which MAC OSX is also based on) Never hangs (98% of time) , Because it's made simple.

Windows is complicated and eats system resources like there's no tomorrow.

though 1800 Euro's is alot of money for some sh*t that doesn't work.

Pioneer should have a look at Apple , They make their firmware FOR their equipment which illuminates ALOT of hardware > software problems.

November 07, 2012 12:38
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Sammy

"We have to be careful BriChi. We're not welcome to our own opinion (unless we're not praising Pioneer products) here without the gods deleting our posts!"

LOL'D , Freedom of speech your argument is invalid.

November 07, 2012 12:41
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Nicolas Schmitz

Now the Loops messed up with the last firmware update.... Seriously, over the last two years how long were the CDJs supposed to work properly with no major failure? I'd say no more than 3-4 months... R.i.d.i.c.u.l.o.u.s.

November 12, 2012 10:20
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Gavin
Pioneer DJ

As has been mentioned elsewhere and which I am sure you are aware by now, the engineers have identified the Nexus issues and are working on releasing a firmware update very soon.

November 15, 2012 12:23
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DJCannon

Hi Gavin, any news on the new firmware update for 2K Nexus? I've just purchased two units upgrading from the now very dated 1000mk3s...... On the very first day the deck staggered on a track with a strange chop like effect and then a few beats completely missing. No fx were in use and when I replayed the track the glitch could not be replicated again.

 

Good job I'm not playing to 50K people - So much for emergency loop! Just playing the track would be good lol! ;-)

November 23, 2012 11:06
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BriChi
Silver

December 3rd

November 23, 2012 11:25
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DJCannon

Thanks very much for the heads up BriChi. I best start googling the firmware flashing process then ;-)

On another note, with regards to the MT on the new units....

I performed my own 'stress test' so to speak by mixing a 74bpm hip hop track with a 114bpm tech house track (cranking the hip hop up to 114 and enabling the MT). The results were remarkable and the mix sounded far far better than I ever could have imagined with such a radical increase and such heavy MT processing. I'm running the decks though the DJM800, all digital outputs and straight through to highly accurate DynAudio BM6 mk2 Studio Monitors.

Very impressed with the MT on these babies! Lets hope the firmware sorts the bugs out though!!!

 

Thanks.

November 23, 2012 11:34
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Leee

@DJCannon

I really don't want to tell you this but - you would have been best sticking with your CDJ 1000 Mk3s (or look for a clean set of CDk mk1's).

I can honestly say that they were the best Pioneer decks that I have owned.

I had the CDJ 2000 mk1's that were great because I could play lots of tracks without the need to burn cds BUT it took Pioneer nearly 1 and a half years to sort them out.

I bought the CDJ Nexus thinking that after all the problems with the Mk1's they would be sorted. BIG BIG mistake.

I'm really considering looking for a nice second hand pair of CDJ 1000 Mk3's and using Traktor as I cannot live with the repetitive freezing from these CDJ nexus 2000's.

I am waiting for the December update and believe me, if it does not fix these crappy decks - they are going back.

November 23, 2012 14:46
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DJCannon

Can't say I've experienced any problems at all whilst playing WAV files. If it's just mp3 the hopefully Pioneer will leave the bugs in there! About time the industry woke up and starting playing high quality audio!

November 27, 2012 04:57
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BriChi
Silver

as much as I agree with you that we should all be using high quality files, Thats obviously not the answer being that 99% of the people in the club/party could not hear the difference or care less if you play a 320k mp3 and a wav file

November 27, 2012 05:04
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DJCannon

Ha ha, being tongue in cheek there of course! :)

It is an interesting observation though, could it be that Pioneer only tested using one format? If so that's mind blowing! The more the decks become more software/ASIC orientated the more Pioneer show there shortcomings in this brave new world. A tech company would have a stringent project test plan covering all formats, physical conditions, setups and intensity.

 

I find it remarkable that this mp3 issue has slipped though the process of testing before going to market with the product! Unless of course that was an exec decision - cheap MS style end user regression testing??

 

We can only speculate.....

November 27, 2012 05:18
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BriChi
Silver

yeah, all speculation of course, but i agree, I am patiently waiting for Mondays update

November 27, 2012 05:21
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Paulm72

Leee - i still have my mk1s if you need a pair ....

November 27, 2012 11:24
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Leee

Cheers for the offer Paulm72. I will wait for this new firmware before I decide what to do.

I did see a post from you (I think it was you) on another forum and on location said you were in Leeds. Are you the same guy?

If so i'm also in Leeds.

November 28, 2012 00:41
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Paulm72

I am mate yes, my mk1's have just gone onto ebay

November 28, 2012 02:51
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DJCannon

Just to add - I will be selling my 'absolutely' pristine still with boxes etc 1000mk3s too if any takers? Manchester UK based

November 28, 2012 05:00
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Eychenne Everyday
End User

I've been away for quite a while and have been silently reading all the posts on the forums with regards to the Nexus releases. So I thought I'd chime in once I'd actually had a chance to play on these.

I ended up picking up a pair over the weekend despite all the apparent issues and to be honest, they seem perfect to me for what I primarily use them for (about 60% analyzed & 10% unanalyzed WAV files plus about 30% unanalysed MP3s), all played off a powered USB HDD and/or stand-alone SD Card in the CDJ slot. Granted, I haven't taken them out in the real world yet so it may be too early to tell.

Since I don't use cue points or Pro DJ Link via RB (I still loathe the idea of DJing on a lappy), this is in no way intended to invalidate all the complaints such as those experienced by the likes of BriChi et al. However, it should be noted that, even prior to the up-coming update, these ARE pretty amazing machines and if you can afford them, there's no need to hold back. In my opinion, the additional features/feature inclusion (slip mode, wave form & zoom and especially slip loop) should be enough to warrant an upgrade if you can afford it.

I was lucky enough to have some dormant credit at the local retailer so I dove right in on Black Friday knowing very well that I could return them within a certain period if not entirely satisfied. To be fair, I still have my MK1s and my 900s so there is absolutely no risk on my part. As of today, I have to say that the boxes these came in are still sitting in my garage and I do not foresee any use for them. I will probably keep these babies. From my vantage point, the upcoming firmware update just sounds like free money at this point in time.

Now if anyone knows me, I was very, very, very vocal and critical of the MEP player on the old forums a while back so this is in no way a biased contribution.  But then again, I may just be that lucky bastard that never gets a faulty batch given that I've never been able to quantify the apparent MT issues on the MK1s - lol!

Oh yeah, I hate the idea of beat sync on these since they do in fact allow amateur DJs to "seemingly" pass the beat-matching test at first glance, which WILL cost you (the seasoned DJ) a gig at some point in the future when the club owner solely uses that as a measuring stick prior to the real test on the night of (selection, crwod-reading, etc). The argument about software having this feature for years is somewhat invalid to me because in the past, when people realized that you'd been rocking on CDJs all night and your mixes had been super-tight all night, they'd consider you skilled. But if they heard the same mixes and then realized you'd been playing off a lappy, you just wouldn't get the same respect and subsequent complements. Beat sync on the new 2000s has just taken away that perceived value.

There see, I told you I wasn't a fan boy. Ha!

*No need to re-address the beat-sync here since that has been discussed ad nauseam and we all know it's here to stay, so let's just embrace it and move on. Lol!

 

November 28, 2012 05:36
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Pulse
Pioneer DJ

Welcome back old friend, I look forward to another Xmas mix this year!  ;)

November 28, 2012 18:12
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Eychenne Everyday
End User

Working on it as we speak, actually...

Just wish the DJM-2000 Nexus was out already so I could make it super-awesome with all those new cool effects!!!

November 28, 2012 18:41
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Gavin
Pioneer DJ

Welcome back, Eric! Thanks for your contributions.

November 29, 2012 09:57
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MrChukkel
End User

Indeed Welcome back :D

December 01, 2012 02:17
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Eychenne Everyday
End User

Yup, great to be back now that the youngin's are a little bigger - lol!

Pulse, still working on your follow-up Xmas Chill mix. Those tunes are so hard to come by. I think I've only been able to gather about 6 of them so far ad it's already Dec 1st. Damn!

But in the meantime, indulge your guilty pleasures here...

forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/22531017-my-favs-from-2012

You know you want to :)

December 01, 2012 11:01
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Eychenne Everyday
End User
December 01, 2012 11:02
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Eychenne Everyday
End User

Ah, there you go...

What's with the EDIT options on the new forumses? Am I that out of the loop?

December 01, 2012 11:03
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Martin (SzM) Andersson

Matertempo on Traktor 2 Pro, is by far the best ever produced, any other brand or competitor has met his match!

Sorry, but that is the truth!

December 04, 2012 14:47
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Gavin
Pioneer DJ

@Eychenne > Yeah, there's no edit function on the forums at the moment - we've requested it from Zendesk (developers behind the software that runs the forums).

December 05, 2012 06:20
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