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CDJ 2000 vs Nexus: Scandal

Hi guys,

the more I read about Nexus the more I get frustrated with my CDJ 2000. Pioneer is talking about 'significant improvement' in the Nexus Master Tempo vs the CDJ 2000 mk1. How can they improve something that is just binary, it works or it just doesn't work.

As soon as the 2000s were released I sold my CDJ 1000s and bought the 2000s straight away. A couple of years later Pioneer is telling me the model I bought at such a high price was kind of a draft, it is discontinued and if I want the real thing that is definitely the Nexus I should go for. This is ugly behaviour. AT LEAST COULD THEY MAKE AN OFFER ON OUR CDJ 2000S TO HELP US BUY THE NEW ONES???

Nicolas Schmitz

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Believe me, you don't want to buy the nexus players at this time... Stay with the mk1 which are great players right now with 4.2 update.

tasos
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Of course it is real, just read the Nexus description to make up your mind...

High-quality Master Tempo keeps sound faithful to the original 

DJs will be truly impressed with Pioneer´s best-ever quality Master Tempo. The CDJ-2000nexus uses a new algorithm to lock the track´s pitch while they manipulate the tempo, for sound that is more faithful to the original tone. 

What was it not supposed to do that in the Mk1?

 

Improved Quantize: Quantize uses the track´s beat grid to ensure loops and cues are set and triggered in time with music, with 100 per cent accuracy. And DJs can now access Quantize via its own dedicated ON/OFF button. 

Was the Mk1 not supposed to do that??

 

Nicolas Schmitz
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@Phil, i never expect a better price just because i bought previous players from pioneer, but i expect from my new eqipment to work properly.

tasos
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sorry tasos, i was referring to Nicolas, the original poster.

Nicolas, the mark 1 is very nearly 3 years old. there have been improvements Pioneer have made in that time to MT and these have made their way to the nexus. simple.

the 'improved' quantise means that hot cues can now be quantised and there's a dedicated on/off button. the mark 1 never had that feature (although the in/out point of loops were able to be quantised).

i really don't see what the 'scandal' is in pioneer releasing a new model, 3 years after the original, with a few improvements. 3 years is a very reasonable shelf life.  if you think that's scandalous then i guess you didn't buy the iPad 3 (outdated after 6 months!)

Phil
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By now, we all know the first version(s) of a complex firmware-based new product are going to be buggy.  This is why most seasoned users will wait for signs of stability before upgrading.  With my 2000mk-1s, I fall in this camp.  A friend just got Nexus's because he's moving to media-based playback, and as a new purchase it makes sense to go with the latest and ride the firmware upgrade train.

WRT: MT:  The DSP performance has been upgraded in the Nexus, so I would expect better sonic performance overall, especially with MT.  How this relates to a scandal is beyond me.  It's like saying my 386 pc can't play counterstrike.  When I see it's time to upgrade, I expect better performance and new features across the board.

What remains "scandalous" (for lack of a better term) is the lack of FLAC and 24/96k support on a device that plays media files.  Oh, and those cheapo tactile switches used on the cue/play buttons across the entire range... what's up with that?  Glad I know how to solder.

pope
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@Brichi,Leee & taso: thank you, it does make me feel a bit better to read that we should stick to the Mk1

@Phil: the MT function was implemented successfully on the CDJ 1000s much better than the CDJ 2000s, it was just working basically. Simple. Therefore something was done wrong in the CDJ 2000. Now they probably fixed the bug in the Nexus which I suspect is a hardware issue. If this was only software they would have fixed the problem on the 2000s a lot earlier. Basically selling this stuff at this price to pros and having the MT function not working is not good enough my friend. This is why they should offer something substantial for people to upgrade. When I broke my Bose headphones that were 2 years old the shop offered me 100£ to buy new ones and they were not failing they always worked perfectly which is obviously not the case of the CDJ 2000. When Toyota released a car with some defaults on the brakes they called back millions of vehicles. What has Pioneer done for us?

Nicolas Schmitz
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the MT on the 2000 was improved in a firmware update last year i think. in my opinion it worked just as well as the 1000's - i have owned both. it's not perfect, no real time MT algorithm is ever going to be... the nexus MT isn't perfect either, neither is the one used by Traktor or Ableton. there are plenty of people who are happy with the MT on the mk1, it does work.

a car with faulty brakes is somewhat of a more serious issue than pitch correction on a cd player. would Toyota ever recall a car for a fault on one of the functions on the cd player?

Phil
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Phil your statement is just ridiculous I'm afraid. The main function of a car is to drive... the MT function on a pro DJ cd player is just as essential as the brakes on a car... But I get the picture, if there was a faulty model of Porsche released with a speed limitation at 160km/h there would always be a few fools stating it is just working fine... This would be a proper scandal though. The only difference here is that the market for this kind of cd players is very limited and the people who have been conned can't make the appropriate noise, so Pioneer just don't care.

Nicolas Schmitz
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"the MT function on a pro DJ cd player is just as essential as the brakes on a car... "  LOL.

it's not even close to being as essential. if you want to carry on this analogy to a car, it's probably closer to an electric window. a nice to have but not essential.

anyway, it works as well as can be expected and you can still mix perfectly well without it, including harmonic mixing as proved by a generations of vinyl djs who are happy to DJ without 'brakes'.

Phil
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yeah yeah as mobile phone, gps and so on... generations lived without so not essential... of course Phil, of course. Clearly that is a bright demonstration. Thank you. Keep walking...

Nicolas Schmitz
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No problem. And thanks for providing me with one of the biggest LOLs I've seen on this board in a long time.

Phil
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(Haven't read all the replies in this thread yet) I can understand that type of frustration. I myself have also been a bit confused as my first thought when reading the feature list of the Nexus was to see what I 'didn't' have on my CDJ-2000. I am curious about the 'master tempo' control if it is software controlled it is certainly able to be adjusted in a software update I would think. 

movingzachb
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Probably a new chip, Not sure though, The best part is is the new and improved MT has broken the decks when using MP3's, Its such a great feature, MT causes the decks to completely lock up when banging away at hot starts with an mp3 file

BriChi
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DSP - Digital Signal Processor. Essentially the processor in the CDJ. Just like the processor in your laptop, it has a certain clock speed and limitations on how much it can do at once. The nexus is a new version and 3 years younger, hence it has a faster DSP which is capable of more. MT is a very processor intensive task as anyone who's ever used Traktor on an older machine will attest, and maintaining SQ up to ±16% while also providing ultra low latency playback control is not something to be taken lightly.

@OP, you want the mk1's to be recalled because they're not as good as the nexus (FW bugs aside)? Good luck with that.

fullenglishpint
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@fullenglishpint
Sorry to repeat myself but if this was rocket science and required the last technology how do you explain that the MT was working perfectly on 6 years old Cdj 1000?

Nicolas Schmitz
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Because the 1000's simply are simple , they don't require alot of random stuff that only eats processor power for not alot of good.

(Talking about the huge screen , jog illumination and USB browsing) Those things take allot of handling (not even speaking about link).

Those CDJ's are like computers , thus they hang and fail.

Sammy
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"Those CDJ's are like computers , thus they hang and fail."

You're not wrong there but at £1500 each they shouldn't!

If I paid £1500 for a pc it could do alot more things than these decks and still not "hang and fail"

Leee
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exactly, for this much money, they better never hang and fail, I expect that kinda garbage from $800 denons, not $2400 Pioneers

BriChi
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We have to be careful BriChi. We're not welcome to our own opinion (unless we're not praising Pioneer products) here without the gods deleting our posts!

Leee
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Thus and Android Tablet has less fail then a Windows PC.

and Ubuntu (Linux which MAC OSX is also based on) Never hangs (98% of time) , Because it's made simple.

Windows is complicated and eats system resources like there's no tomorrow.

though 1800 Euro's is alot of money for some sh*t that doesn't work.

Pioneer should have a look at Apple , They make their firmware FOR their equipment which illuminates ALOT of hardware > software problems.

Sammy
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"We have to be careful BriChi. We're not welcome to our own opinion (unless we're not praising Pioneer products) here without the gods deleting our posts!"

LOL'D , Freedom of speech your argument is invalid.

Sammy
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Now the Loops messed up with the last firmware update.... Seriously, over the last two years how long were the CDJs supposed to work properly with no major failure? I'd say no more than 3-4 months... R.i.d.i.c.u.l.o.u.s.

Nicolas Schmitz
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As has been mentioned elsewhere and which I am sure you are aware by now, the engineers have identified the Nexus issues and are working on releasing a firmware update very soon.

Gavin
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Hi Gavin, any news on the new firmware update for 2K Nexus? I've just purchased two units upgrading from the now very dated 1000mk3s...... On the very first day the deck staggered on a track with a strange chop like effect and then a few beats completely missing. No fx were in use and when I replayed the track the glitch could not be replicated again.

 

Good job I'm not playing to 50K people - So much for emergency loop! Just playing the track would be good lol! ;-)

DJCannon