unsteady BPMs on tracks (CDJ2000NXS)

I've seen the same thing when I check the tracks that i produce. During mastering in order to check the sound also on my amplifier I create a wav file, copy it on a USB stick and then put it in the CDJ (the computer for production is another room so I cannot connect it directly to the amplifier). I do not want to waste time in rekordbox, it's just a temporary version of the mastering that I might need to adjust again (equalize, compress...) after listening to it, so i do not analyze it.

The bpm of the tracks is obviously 100% steady, it's electronic music generated by Ableton, but when I put it in the CDJ the bpm readout would fluctuate continuously exactly as Walter describes.

The actual bpm of the track does not drift, it's stable, and you can check it by beatmatching by ear with another track analyzed in rekordbox or coming from traktor. It's only the measurement, the bpm readout on the display of the cdj that fluctuates a bit. Apparently the CDJ 2000 nexus is not able to provide a 100% precise bpm readout as it analyzes the track in real time while it's playing.

Analyzing the track with rekordbox you will see a steady bpm on the cdj. That's exactly what happens to my tracks after I'm done mastering: i create an mp3 and then analyze it with rekordbox. After analyzing the track the bpm is not fluctuating anymore. It's only the real time bpm measurement that does not work.

Basically we have a 2000 € device that doesn't analyze the bpm much better than a 200 € cheap mixer with bpm counter.

Julia,

Thank you for your descriptive input.  So as I understand it, you are also under the impression that the firmware on the CDJ2000NXS needs improvement to get this issue resolved.

Gavin, Pulse, Jay or anyone from Pioneer, would you please be kind enough to comment on this?

Thanks

Yes running the tracks through Rekordbox will help when using the CDJs and if it seems that there is a drift, I will send that info out to the appropriate individuals.  What was the firmware version you were using, and where were the tracks from and in what format..

Thank you

HI Jay,

Thank you for the prompt response.  The tracks are mp3 and in my case were beatport downloads.  I also have some ethnic music that I download legally for free and the problem was present with them as well.

I would like to point out (and correct me if I am wrong please) that once one analyzes the tracks with RB, I assume that the CDJ does not try to figure out the bpm of that track as some kind of info is passed on to the CDJ that RB has already done this; in which case, we're back at the argument that the CDJ is still not doing it's BPM detection as accurately as it should or as accurately as other Pioneer CDJs have done so in the past.  This would just be bypassing the problem which is the firmware on the CDJ2000 Nexus.

I am also wondering if this is beyond just a visual issue.  What I mean is, I wonder if the CDJ is actually affecting the BPM/pitch when it displays the changes (without touching the tempo slider).

Sorry if I may be stating the obvious above but I want to make sure we have all our ducks in order so whoever you speak with does not just tell you that users need to use RB to analyze tracks.  I am convinced based on the testing I have done and the reading I have done on other CDJ models that the firmware needs work.

I look forward to hearing back from you on this matter.

Thank you kindly,

WW

@JAY    latest firmware by the way.

On the fly BPM detection will never be 100% no matter what software or hardware you use, which is why traktor, serato, ableton and any other DJ software use pre-analysed grids.  Traktor will automatically load grid data when a track is loaded.  Before then there is no BPM info or it's completely inaccurate.  

Not sure why ppl see this as an issue, basically if you want rock solid BPM and grid data, analyse the file or show me an example of a 100% BPM detection device currently on the market.

Only way i see this being possible without analysing on rekordbox is for the CDJ's to analyse the file when loaded and store data in temporary memory, which i believe may be too small at its current size. 

As I said above, the pitch is not drifting, it's only the display because of the on-the-fly bpm analysis. Probably on other CDJs this effect is not visible because they don't have such a high resolution on the display, I guess.

It's a minor annoyance but I find a bit disappointing the fact that a 2000 € state of the art DSP computer such as the CDJ Nexus is not able to calculate a stable bpm. I don't want to believe that it doesn't have enough CPU power or memory to do something that any djing software on the crappiest pc could do in 30 seconds already 5 years ago.

Isn't that what rekordbox does in 30 seconds like all the other DJ software on any crappy computer, Ipad, or iphone.

Why would you not put your music through rekordbox if you use CDJ's regularly.  You have no cues, no waveform data, no quantize, no BPM grid, no user settings, no KUVO, and no sync capabilities.  Why spend $2000 on a state of the art CDJ and only use the features that a $30 DVD player with usb playback can provide, seriously thats just crazy, your be better off selling your CDJ's and spending the money on a holiday.

Again, not sure why you are stating that a $2000 CDJ should be able to provide a stable reading, especially when you have not mentioned a single unit that does this on the market currently without analysing the whole track, and even then software grids don't get it exactly right every time and require movement of the grids.

No BPM detection is truely 100% accurate but if a house track from last year is fluctuating around 126 or is 126.1, common sense should tell you that it must be 126, which you can change manually yourself(within software or course).

Indeed, I do analyze my music with rekordbox because I like to use the waveform, the precise bpm and grid, the quantization and the key/harmonic mix suggestion but having paid 2000 € x 2 I expect these units to provide a stable bpm detection for the few times that I want to put a cd or play some music that i did not analyze. Even Traktor DJ that costs a few euros can find a precise and stable bpm in a few seconds on an iPhone, so why not  a 2000 € CDJ?

Having given 4000 € to Pioneer I feel entitled to complain loudly about all least relevant details :D

For worse complaint like the crappy firmware updates that left us for many months with limp CDJs and the terrible rekordbox updates that introduce new bugs every new version I complain in other threads ;)

The unsteady bpm display is indeed not relevant for using the CDJ but it would be such a simple fix in the firmware (calculate an average on a longer time or round it up to next bpm or half bpm) that shows carelessness and approximation. It's just another piece in a big picture that gives me the impression that Pioneer is good at making hardware but clueless at making software.

But then tracks with human drummers and shifting bass lines would be completely inaccurate, I understand what your saying but I feel it's working as intended and doesn't need to be changed.

Definitely wouldn't hurt pioneer to employ more software engineers and improve lots of these problems we are having, maybe even add some long awaited features that people are requesting, but I fear we'll see a whole new range of products before that happens.

Shane, if you feel your flagship CDJ is where it needs to be and doesn't require any touch-ups, I am not sure why you feel the need to force that on others.  Not really sure what else to say to you as it's clearly a difference of opinion here and unfortunately this form is the only way we have to reach out to pioneer so with all due respect, enough with your opinion, it's been heard.

Forums are for all people to voice there opinions, thoughts, complaints and praises alike. There are many ways to reach out to pioneer directly if you so wish too, so please do not Insult me just because my opinion is different to you or others.

your first reply I might consider as a voice of opinion but after that is just you forcing your opinion.  Anyways I am done talking about this with you. as mentioned, I posted for reaching out to Pioneer, not you.

cheers