CDJ 2000 Nexus looping issue

@Shane > The loop goes for over 2 minutes before really becoming noticeable. That tells me the amount of drift is tiny. I also noticed that you didn't have the tracks properly anaysed for the the tempo (86 showing when they're D&B), so while you can see one decimal point, the potential for up to 1/10th BPM difference in tracks could allow for that much drift over time.

I don't think this is a problem.

The shorter the loop the faster the loops go out of sync, this loop is actually an 8 beat loop because it's D&B at halftime, if you like I can show you several videos of say house music on a 4 beat loop going out of sync, as somebody who uses loops quite a lot and likes to keep my mixes pretty tight I would consider this a problem for a unit that costs £1499.

The original CDJ 2000 will loop all day and stay in sync not a problem, so how you can say this is not a problem is beyond me.

I say I don't think it's a problem from the point that it took almost 2 minutes for it to come out a tiny amount -- the accuracy of the loop and the tracks playing is such that if it's off by that small amount, you can correct it with a nudge and have it stay in sync for another 2 minutes.

i think you're seeing the same issue as we're discussing here shane. the nexus looping is just really buggy compared to the regular 2000. 

http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/57060898--TICKETED-CDJ2000NXS-In-Out-Loop-BUG

The point isn't how long it took, or that it can be solved with a nudge of the jog wheel, the point is that it's not working as intended, nor as advertised.

One of the big selling points of the CDJ 2000 Nexus is the fact that everything you do with quantize enabled stays in time, yet the loops are not. I could make a thousand videos of all different tracks doing exactly the same thing, I'd kindly ask you to forward this post along with my video to your engineering team so they can take a look at it, I've paid for the units and I think I'm entitled to a bit more customer service than a bandaid fix of "nudge it"

I will create another video later and include several different tracks all doing the same thing.

Pulse if you want i can upload a video where the loop goes off in few seconds. 4 beat loop @ 120-125 bpm gets off after 2-3 times played. Worst if you do a 2 beat loop, 1 beat loop etc.

@Shane > The frame accuracy of the player and the audio file is why it won't be perfect on every track for every loop. If the limitation of the player is such that the end point of the loop can't be exactly where it needs to be because of the length of a frame, then the loop is slightly off. You either get one slightly too short or slightly too long and adjust it with a pitch bend.

Allow me to refer to the CDJ 2000 Nexus features on the Pioneer website.

"**Improved Quantize: **Quantize uses the track’s beat grid to ensure loops and cues are set and triggered in time with music, with 100 per cent accuracy. And DJs can now access Quantize via its own dedicated ON/OFF button."

My tracks are already beatmatched, I hit a loop, why should I now have to rematch my tracks when it clearly specifies in the above writing "with 100 percent accuracy", that's not 100%, that's 95%.

http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/newsroom/news/CDJ-2000nexus/page.html

@Shane > I'm glad you think marketing runs the engineering department! ;)

I crunched some numbers for you because I like maths...

With a sample track at approximately 123BPM, a 4 beat loop is measured in audio editing software at 1950.2494331ms (86,006 samples @ 44.1k).

The CDJ-2000nexus is capable of 1ms when using a quantized loop, or 6.6666667ms (1/2 frame @ 75frames/sec) with a non-quantized loop. This means if the loop is quantized, there is a loss of 0.2494ms per loop as the accuracy of 1ms means a total length of 1950ms. If the loop is NOT quantized, the resolution is lower, resulting in loop lengths of either 1946.6667ms or 1953.3333ms, a difference of -3.58ms or +3.08ms per loop – and that’s if you manage to get the loop as close to perfect as possible doing it without the quantization. Both of these also assume your beat grid is 100% accurate as the looping, quantized or auto-loop, is based on the beat grid. If you were to loop manually, you will be even less accurate than the timings noted. After just 4 cycles of this unquantized loop, it will be out by approximately 12ms in either direction. The quantized loop however, would be out by a mere 1ms.

But that’s only 4 beats looped 4 times; 1 phrase is a mere 7.8s. Chances are you’ll wind up looping a bit longer, especially if you’re into any electronic music – let’s assume you loop it for 4 phrases (64 beats) – that’s 31.2s. If you had used a quantized loop, you’re now out of sync by 4ms and for that unquantized loop, by about 48ms. 

These numbers will vary as the length of a 4 beat loop will differ based on the tempo. Likewise, if you set a 16 beat loop, it will take 4x longer to drift. And again, all of this assumes that your two tracks are 100% in sync to start with beat grids that are bang-on.

At what point do you start hearing that the loop is no longer accurate and out of sync with another track? Somewhere around 8-10ms for a trained ear (although some DJs may notice even around 5ms), 12-15ms for most people and it would most certainly audible to everyone at 20-25ms.

Throw as many numbers at me as you like Pulse, the fact of the matter is the units aren't working as intended, and there's still no fix for it.

Anything quantized shouldn't go out of time, they're advertised in this way and should do so, or is false advertising something pioneer pride themselves in?

I know this is an old thread - I remember this issue - i sold my nexus 2ks because of this and got the cheaper XDJ1000 (mk1). Well the XDJs do not drift in loop. I did a show tonight using CDJ 2000 Nexus - yup they did the same thing and they drifted terribly. Even when sync is on, makes no difference. My music is gridded nicely and works on XDJ1000 as well as CDJ900nxs loops are no problem. Loops are not usable on any CDJ2000nexus i have ever been on except an MK2. Is it the MK1? And its more than a nudge its drastic over mere 4 beats/1 measure.

Wow can we keep this thread going this is amazing, pop corns cold but still would like to see the end of this situation. 

Happens on my brand new XDJ-700s as well :(