Yes, I set it up to -5 from the very first day; i followed the instructions exactly as you showed them, and still have those problems.
to overcome it, i had to lower down the volume on my monitors to almost a zero position, so that i could crank up the master enough for it to show up on my computer (audacity, or garage band, or anything else i use to record; it doesn't matter its always low unless i crank up the master volume)
i know im not the only one that has experienced this before since i've seen similar posts with similar questions - i just want to know if its a hardware limitation and the only way to get around it is to crank up the master very significantly to get a high basal level in the computer and just use the gains from there (but having the monitors set at a really low volume)... you know my issue right?
Pulse
@Francisco > Are you using the USB for recording or the digital output?
Pulse
With the club system menu output set to -5dB, when you are hitting 0dB on the meters, Audacity will record at -5dB. If you have it set to -19dB, it will be at -19dB when you peak at 0dB on the mixer, this applies to the USB output and the coax digital output.
FSR
@Pulse - yes, im using usb
i guess my question is - why do i have to crank up the master so high to be able to record in my computer? other platforms, like my cheap vci-300mkii controller did not care about the master volume - it only cares about the gain knobs and it records at a constant volume throughout the mix UNLESS i modify the gain knobs - whereas in the djm 2000, if i move the master knob, it automatically lowers the volume of the mix being recorded (and the final recorded mix); of course i can also do this with the gain, but why is the master knob modifying the recorded volume instead of being independent of that? i guess im not explaining it very well...
thanks a lot pulse; you are always very helpful; im just trying to figure out if its hardware limitation or not?
Pulse
@Francisco > That would be because the VCI uses a recording bus output -- and the DJM-2000 does as well via its analog REC outputs, but the output to digital and USB is post-master.
FSR
ok now i get it - so you would recommend using an analog recording device to deal with this specific problem? could you recommend some good options?
its just annoying that i had to turn down my monitors to almost zero to avoid having to mix at very loud volumes that are still subject to modification if i move the master knob you know?
how do you deal with this specific problem when recording over usb?
you just set the master at around 0 and not touch it for the entire session? or how do you do it to maintain a constant volume over the mix?
thanks a lot pulse - again you're very helpful
F
Pulse
Not at all - I would ask why you're not running your master at 0dB anyhow! Since way back on the DJM500, the optimal balance of audio (primarily for the headphones) was to run the channel gain so the meters peaked at 0dB and the master peaked the same; this allowed for equal audio level between the master and channel when cueing when the mix balance was set at 12. If you have a specific reason for having the master lower, then that's certainly valid and you can compensate by adjusting the mix knob, but as the digital / USB outputs are also tied to the master level, why not just keep it up?
FSR
hey pulse - thanks for replying. really the only reason to have it lower is because i wouldn't have to turn down my monitors because it gets excessively loud accidentally. that is why, for recording purposes, i cranked the master (to be able to record through usb) and turned down my monitors to almost zero. that is really the only reason i didn't want to have it so high (so that i didn't end up blowing my ears up because of not compensating for volume in my monitors); i guess i was just very used to my controller before i upgraded, and thus thought it was weird that it was like this. so you would suggest that i continue as im doing? i.e. keeping the master around 0, w/o touching it at all, and just manipulating the volumes with the gain knob while i compensate for volume on my monitors? how do you have it set up? and how do you compensate for a volume that is too high unless you turn down the monitors? i just wanna rule out that im doing something wrong. thanks pulse, F
Pulse
@Francisco > Everything on my mixer is always going out at 0dB and I attenuate at the next stage, be it my post-processor or at the speakers. I actually use my booth output in the studio so I can better adjust the volume of my monitor speakers directly at the mixer.
The best bet is to adjust the gain for each track you play so it peaks the same (wherever you choose to have it peaking) and the master should match that mark.
FSR
Pulse - that sounds good then. I actually do not understand very well how i could use the booth output. you mean you could use the booth output to actually lower the volume of the monitors w/o physically touching them, and thus avoiding the need to touch the master volume knob? is that what you mean?
if so, how can i set it up to do that? my set up is pretty simple, just mixer to monitors using rca cables plus 2 cdj 2ks
if what i think you're saying is true, then being able to do that is just exactly what i would like to do (i.e. selectively lower output through the monitors w/o affecting volume of the mix being recorded).
let me know; this would make me extremely happy
thanks,
F
Pulse
@Francisco > Yes; exactly that, but you'd need either some adapters or new cables as the output from the booth connection is 1/4", not RCA. You'd control the volume of your monitors via the booth knob and the master can stay at whatever level for recording.
FSR
@Pulse - you just made my day!
So I can route 1/4 to 1/4 from booth output directly to the monitors then right?
Then just keep my usb connections intact (cdj - mixer - cdj).
Then just eliminate the master rca connections to the monitors (these would be replaced by booth output connections) right?
This would do it?
If so, I'll go grab the cables today! I've been meaning to get 1/4"s for a while now but just been lazy.
That would do it?
Thanks Pulse - - F
Pulse
Exactly. Makes you wonder why you weren't doing it sooner, doesn't it? ;)
FSR
yeah, makes you feel stupid hahah. i mean i kinda thought that such an expensive piece of equipment couldn't have been flawed like this... and if it had a minor flaw, that there was a way around it! now i know its not really a flaw and thanks to you i know how to get around it ,so i'll set that up tonight and let you know if i ran into any problems! thanks again Pulse! - - F
FSR
Pulse - thought I might give an update on the set up - it worked perfectly. I know other people have had this issue before and did not know how to solve it using the booth output. It completely solved my problem!! Thanks a lot! - - F
matabjeff
I will as welll try this setup when i get home. This will solve my low recording sound? '
thx
matabjeff
One more question. The 1/4"s .. to i plug them in on the "unbalanced trs" on my monitors. And how does this affect quality contra xlr cables?
Thx
Benno Revelli
a little offtopic but here you go:
XLRs filter out noise because they have a third pin (Ground, Shield) so any noise in the cable will not affect audio (which IS the case with trs/rca)
However, for XLRs to work properly, the entire system must be balanced (so the source an the amp/monitor must be truly balanced)
In your case your DJM-2000 and Monitors
XLRs are generally preferred for long distances and areas with a lot of interference (like on big festivals with cables beyond 40 Meter,etc)
but.. XLRs have better sonic capabilities even with short cable lengths.. (theoretically)
However..
in the average home environment you wouldn't be able to tell the difference on a 3 meter unbalanced cable.
hope this helps!
matabjeff
Yo !
This was a good answer. Exaxtly what i needed to know.
Thx from Snorre A (oil rig)
Pulse
To solve some misinformation in Benno's post...
XLRs do not "filter" noise; the shielding simply prevents the cable from acting as an antenna and picking-up any external noise / signal
TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) is the exact same as an XLR because it is balanced and has a shielded cable; TS (Tip Sleeve) does not as it is missing the ring connection for the shield
not everything needs to be balanced in order for it to work; if the input and output device both have balanced connections, you're better to use them but they'll work just fine regardless
XLRs don't have "better sonic capabilities" than any other cable; XLR is simply the connection type, the cable itself can vary wildly depending on the quality and construction
Emmanuel
I finally got this to work.
But I am noticing that on certain tracks my audio is distorting / clipping since I made this change.
I have my mixer set to -3 then to -6 to try to solve this, but does setting the digital max out to -5 have anything to do?. I just got the mixer and played 2 hours no issues. Did this change and on some track few now it distorts and clips. Any relation?
Pulse
@Emmanuel > If you have the output levels set higher than previously, you need to remember that you shouldn't have the master meter levels going above +5dB as that would cause digital clipping (because the output is -5 and say you go to +6, the difference is +1 and anything above 0 in digital world is pure distortion). Try backing your levels off a bit so your audio software meters never peak above -5dB.
T-Top
Where can I get your wallpaper you had on the mac?
Zeus Tunage
not sure if this will helps anyone but when I record in audacity i notice my levels are not bouncing at 0................ but there is a setting in audacity that allows you to boost the levels............. highlight all of your wave file then go to the menu>effects>amplify that does the trick for me :) when i do this the levels start to bounch into 0 (when its doing this it will show you how much its amplifing by)
Zeus Tunage
guys currently i'm using the master output and xlr's to output to my krk 8's.... im going to give this booth output a try, what cables do i need? can anyone supply a link and i'll grab them off ebay
just wanna make sure i dont buy the wrong cables lol (#ivedonethisb4)
much appreciated
Pulse
@Zeus > Sorry I missed your previous note -- typically I record at -6dB peaks in case I have any effects or mixes that take the overall peak levels louder. I then use the amplify or even a normalisation to bring the levels up closer to 0dB peaks afterwards.
As for the booth output, you want either a 1/4 to 1/4 or a 1/4 to XLR (male) as the booth output is 1/4" and your speakers accept both 1/4" and XLR.
FSR
out of the booth is definitely the way to go - i do 1/4 to 1/4 out of the booth, and the recordings are just excellent. i'd say start using out of the booth exclusively if you want to record your sets or really just always use it like that - i'd avoid amplifying, as that usually distorts the recording a bit...
Pulse
@Francisco > You shouldn't be using the booth output to record from; that's why there's a REC output and the ability to record over USB.
FSR
i record over usb - but the booth output solves the problem with the gain - you can leave the gain high enough for it to record at a decent volume into the computer, but be able to manipulate the volume of the speakers separately without affecting the gain levels of the recording - its the same issue we've talked over and over over a bunch of posts does it make sense?
Pulse
You can also adjust the output level in the club-settings menu (as shown in the videos in the first post)... so that avoids the problems as well but keeps the signal digital.
hey Pulse:
Yes, I set it up to -5 from the very first day; i followed the instructions exactly as you showed them, and still have those problems.
to overcome it, i had to lower down the volume on my monitors to almost a zero position, so that i could crank up the master enough for it to show up on my computer (audacity, or garage band, or anything else i use to record; it doesn't matter its always low unless i crank up the master volume)
i know im not the only one that has experienced this before since i've seen similar posts with similar questions - i just want to know if its a hardware limitation and the only way to get around it is to crank up the master very significantly to get a high basal level in the computer and just use the gains from there (but having the monitors set at a really low volume)... you know my issue right?
@Francisco > Are you using the USB for recording or the digital output?
With the club system menu output set to -5dB, when you are hitting 0dB on the meters, Audacity will record at -5dB. If you have it set to -19dB, it will be at -19dB when you peak at 0dB on the mixer, this applies to the USB output and the coax digital output.
@Pulse - yes, im using usb
i guess my question is - why do i have to crank up the master so high to be able to record in my computer? other platforms, like my cheap vci-300mkii controller did not care about the master volume - it only cares about the gain knobs and it records at a constant volume throughout the mix UNLESS i modify the gain knobs - whereas in the djm 2000, if i move the master knob, it automatically lowers the volume of the mix being recorded (and the final recorded mix); of course i can also do this with the gain, but why is the master knob modifying the recorded volume instead of being independent of that? i guess im not explaining it very well...
its similar to this post - http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/20357843-djm-2000-asio-recording
thanks a lot pulse; you are always very helpful; im just trying to figure out if its hardware limitation or not?
@Francisco > That would be because the VCI uses a recording bus output -- and the DJM-2000 does as well via its analog REC outputs, but the output to digital and USB is post-master.
ok now i get it - so you would recommend using an analog recording device to deal with this specific problem? could you recommend some good options?
its just annoying that i had to turn down my monitors to almost zero to avoid having to mix at very loud volumes that are still subject to modification if i move the master knob you know?
how do you deal with this specific problem when recording over usb?
you just set the master at around 0 and not touch it for the entire session? or how do you do it to maintain a constant volume over the mix?
thanks a lot pulse - again you're very helpful
F
Not at all - I would ask why you're not running your master at 0dB anyhow! Since way back on the DJM500, the optimal balance of audio (primarily for the headphones) was to run the channel gain so the meters peaked at 0dB and the master peaked the same; this allowed for equal audio level between the master and channel when cueing when the mix balance was set at 12. If you have a specific reason for having the master lower, then that's certainly valid and you can compensate by adjusting the mix knob, but as the digital / USB outputs are also tied to the master level, why not just keep it up?
hey pulse - thanks for replying. really the only reason to have it lower is because i wouldn't have to turn down my monitors because it gets excessively loud accidentally. that is why, for recording purposes, i cranked the master (to be able to record through usb) and turned down my monitors to almost zero. that is really the only reason i didn't want to have it so high (so that i didn't end up blowing my ears up because of not compensating for volume in my monitors); i guess i was just very used to my controller before i upgraded, and thus thought it was weird that it was like this. so you would suggest that i continue as im doing? i.e. keeping the master around 0, w/o touching it at all, and just manipulating the volumes with the gain knob while i compensate for volume on my monitors? how do you have it set up? and how do you compensate for a volume that is too high unless you turn down the monitors? i just wanna rule out that im doing something wrong. thanks pulse, F
@Francisco > Everything on my mixer is always going out at 0dB and I attenuate at the next stage, be it my post-processor or at the speakers. I actually use my booth output in the studio so I can better adjust the volume of my monitor speakers directly at the mixer.
The best bet is to adjust the gain for each track you play so it peaks the same (wherever you choose to have it peaking) and the master should match that mark.
Pulse - that sounds good then. I actually do not understand very well how i could use the booth output. you mean you could use the booth output to actually lower the volume of the monitors w/o physically touching them, and thus avoiding the need to touch the master volume knob? is that what you mean?
if so, how can i set it up to do that? my set up is pretty simple, just mixer to monitors using rca cables plus 2 cdj 2ks
if what i think you're saying is true, then being able to do that is just exactly what i would like to do (i.e. selectively lower output through the monitors w/o affecting volume of the mix being recorded).
let me know; this would make me extremely happy
thanks,
F
@Francisco > Yes; exactly that, but you'd need either some adapters or new cables as the output from the booth connection is 1/4", not RCA. You'd control the volume of your monitors via the booth knob and the master can stay at whatever level for recording.
@Pulse - you just made my day!
So I can route 1/4 to 1/4 from booth output directly to the monitors then right?
Then just keep my usb connections intact (cdj - mixer - cdj).
Then just eliminate the master rca connections to the monitors (these would be replaced by booth output connections) right?
This would do it?
If so, I'll go grab the cables today! I've been meaning to get 1/4"s for a while now but just been lazy.
That would do it?
Thanks Pulse - - F
Exactly. Makes you wonder why you weren't doing it sooner, doesn't it? ;)
yeah, makes you feel stupid hahah. i mean i kinda thought that such an expensive piece of equipment couldn't have been flawed like this... and if it had a minor flaw, that there was a way around it! now i know its not really a flaw and thanks to you i know how to get around it ,so i'll set that up tonight and let you know if i ran into any problems! thanks again Pulse! - - F
Pulse - thought I might give an update on the set up - it worked perfectly. I know other people have had this issue before and did not know how to solve it using the booth output. It completely solved my problem!! Thanks a lot! - - F
I will as welll try this setup when i get home. This will solve my low recording sound? '
thx
One more question. The 1/4"s .. to i plug them in on the "unbalanced trs" on my monitors. And how does this affect quality contra xlr cables?
Thx
a little offtopic but here you go:
XLRs filter out noise because they have a third pin (Ground, Shield) so any noise in the cable will not affect audio (which IS the case with trs/rca)
However, for XLRs to work properly, the entire system must be balanced (so the source an the amp/monitor must be truly balanced)
In your case your DJM-2000 and Monitors
XLRs are generally preferred for long distances and areas with a lot of interference (like on big festivals with cables beyond 40 Meter,etc)
but.. XLRs have better sonic capabilities even with short cable lengths.. (theoretically)
However..
in the average home environment you wouldn't be able to tell the difference on a 3 meter unbalanced cable.
hope this helps!
Yo !
This was a good answer. Exaxtly what i needed to know.
Thx from Snorre A (oil rig)
To solve some misinformation in Benno's post...
XLRs do not "filter" noise; the shielding simply prevents the cable from acting as an antenna and picking-up any external noise / signal
TRS (Tip Ring Sleeve) is the exact same as an XLR because it is balanced and has a shielded cable; TS (Tip Sleeve) does not as it is missing the ring connection for the shield
not everything needs to be balanced in order for it to work; if the input and output device both have balanced connections, you're better to use them but they'll work just fine regardless
XLRs don't have "better sonic capabilities" than any other cable; XLR is simply the connection type, the cable itself can vary wildly depending on the quality and construction
I finally got this to work.
But I am noticing that on certain tracks my audio is distorting / clipping since I made this change.
I have my mixer set to -3 then to -6 to try to solve this, but does setting the digital max out to -5 have anything to do?. I just got the mixer and played 2 hours no issues. Did this change and on some track few now it distorts and clips. Any relation?
@Emmanuel > If you have the output levels set higher than previously, you need to remember that you shouldn't have the master meter levels going above +5dB as that would cause digital clipping (because the output is -5 and say you go to +6, the difference is +1 and anything above 0 in digital world is pure distortion). Try backing your levels off a bit so your audio software meters never peak above -5dB.
Where can I get your wallpaper you had on the mac?
not sure if this will helps anyone but when I record in audacity i notice my levels are not bouncing at 0................ but there is a setting in audacity that allows you to boost the levels............. highlight all of your wave file then go to the menu>effects>amplify that does the trick for me :) when i do this the levels start to bounch into 0 (when its doing this it will show you how much its amplifing by)
guys currently i'm using the master output and xlr's to output to my krk 8's.... im going to give this booth output a try, what cables do i need? can anyone supply a link and i'll grab them off ebay
just wanna make sure i dont buy the wrong cables lol (#ivedonethisb4)
much appreciated
@Zeus > Sorry I missed your previous note -- typically I record at -6dB peaks in case I have any effects or mixes that take the overall peak levels louder. I then use the amplify or even a normalisation to bring the levels up closer to 0dB peaks afterwards.
As for the booth output, you want either a 1/4 to 1/4 or a 1/4 to XLR (male) as the booth output is 1/4" and your speakers accept both 1/4" and XLR.
out of the booth is definitely the way to go - i do 1/4 to 1/4 out of the booth, and the recordings are just excellent. i'd say start using out of the booth exclusively if you want to record your sets or really just always use it like that - i'd avoid amplifying, as that usually distorts the recording a bit...
@Francisco > You shouldn't be using the booth output to record from; that's why there's a REC output and the ability to record over USB.
i record over usb - but the booth output solves the problem with the gain - you can leave the gain high enough for it to record at a decent volume into the computer, but be able to manipulate the volume of the speakers separately without affecting the gain levels of the recording - its the same issue we've talked over and over over a bunch of posts does it make sense?
You can also adjust the output level in the club-settings menu (as shown in the videos in the first post)... so that avoids the problems as well but keeps the signal digital.