Pioneer DJ CDJ2000NXS2 VS.Denon DJ SC5000 NOW WHAT ?

Hey now, cmon. For $300 you can get access to an 8 beat jump. That's reasonable, right? I can't wait to see what they offer me to purchase next!

@SRNM agreed! Been saying this since 2012 when the original nexus came out.  It was a no brainer in my opinion for the original 2012 nexus to have had 8 hot cues or at least 5 with a sampler function.  The nexus 2 should've had a slicer/freeze function, hot cues banks to be able to play over existing track, up to 32 beat jump and different color wave forms to have some customizations.  It was only a matter of time when another company came back with something that would push ahead as far as functionality.  

I just hope Pioneer doesn't wait too long with the xdj 2000 or whatever there answer to the denon sc5000 is.  Also I hope they give us everything the Denon sc5000 allows plus extras like wave form customizations and sampler functionality and the quantized on the fly needle jump feature I have been asking for years.  

looking forward to try the new denon. Very important for me would be support and fixing of bugs if discovered.

Look guys,  MY intentions are not to bash Pioneer which is how you're making me feel as if I did, mainly because some of you are diving to stand up for Pioneer and trying hard to discredit Denon.  

I will say it again, I am a Pioneer guy. Its all I have used and all I want to use but when they start raising prices for no good reason, that's when I want to look elsewhere.  I live in Toronto, Canada. I buy my gear from Long & McQuade.  2 CDJ 2000 NXS2's and 1 DJM 900 NXS2 costs $10098.81.  Thats over ten thousand dollars including taxes. ($2979 each +13% tax). Since when does a CDJ and  a mixer cost exactly the same LOL

what happened to the NXS 2 to justify this price hike?  And pls don't give me that "since when was DJ cheap!"  

Most of you who are passing criticism here haven't even touched the SC5000 PRIM. I played with it and it felt good.  for goodness sake, some of you are judging the deck's buttons/pads and knobs from pictures and videos LOL

Perhaps, Pioneer can explain why the price of the NXS2 jumped because I feel it jumped because of the lack of competition in the industry.

I just want to see fair pricing, a well behaved president, less killings around the world and $3000 CDJ2000NXS's that are not being used as controllers for Serato and Traktor!   LOL :)

As long as the denon players couldn’t read Rekordbox Sticks properly it isn’t an option. Would be interesting to know how much sales denon made and if there are clubs that changed their riders.

It has more than that if you're referring to the denon but is overpriced, they can't just take the cake yet because of 1 good unit,they are pricing it as if it were a Pioneer which is too hi already.

Pioneer needs to listen to the djs more because all the features that Denon added to their new Prime units is what I been asking for since 2012. I tried to push for analyzing tracks on the units itself, also adding hot cue banks to layer over existing tracks which essentially is dual deck. Myself and many other djs have asked for more beat jump options, now Denon not only allows 8/16/32 beat jump but also 64 beat jump which is awesome.

If Denon shows they could be reliable which is really the only problem I have had with Denon in the past then they are definitely on there way to take the crown.

Yes,for sure it would be awesome if pioneer would analyze tracks without using RB,it kinda sucks to see different brands coming out with all the hot shit  i wanted on Pioneer,just like the Akai MPC X and LIVE the came out with the features i wanted on the Toraiz,huge disappointment and we still waiting for updates on the Toraiz they said first the live looping would be ready early 2017 now they talking April and it is subject to change again,who knows when we will get it but i might just get me an MPC live for now and if i like it enough i will keep it and maybe get rid of the Toraiz

I saw the new DENON SC5000 and became so uncomfortable that i sold my CDJ2000nexus pair and DJM900 nexus 2 mixer.  The mixer is awesome but no point keeping the set until i find a new go to player.  Reading all issues with cdj2000nxs2 i'm hesitant to get these especially for that kind of dollar?  I hate controllers although i'm considering a ddj rz.  The DENON SC5000 can analyze tracks but i saw the video and man was it ever slow in analyzing just one track.  I can only see this being used in an emergency situation where someone has some unanalyzed track on a USB and you want to play them.  I can't see analyzing large collections through the SC50000.

I hear you patrizio,i like my pioneer set but i wish they would add some firmware with good features that at least do more and rekordbox issues are getting me sick as well all the lag hang freeze whatever you wanna call it its all a headache and embarrisment when playing in front of hundreds of people,i have been trying to get away from the computer as far as making beats because eveytime microsoft does an update it screws up something on fl studio and alot of the plugins so i thought the toraiz is nice and goes well with the cdjs but even that dissapointed me because it does basically the same,freeze,hangs,lags i should go back to just listening to music and forget the 30 years of mixing and scratching and 15years of fl studio and making beats including the toraiz or anything in that matter,i get in my nice setup studio excited to make something i have in mind ready to tear up the 1s and 2s the toraiz and fl and the momentum goes away as soon as i encounter issues with any one of these..rekordbox included.technology is monopoly and disposable now days,wow thats my long ass story,damni didnt realize how much i wrote.lol

Everytime i read comments i Think its funny how people rave about things they dont have no idea about.

To be frank, Denon wont go anywhere, why?, well they havet had a serious hit in over EIGHT years. Dont get me wrong, im both an avid user of both Pioneer and Denon. And when it comes to analyzing the Music on the Machines, theres a reason why Pioneer choosed to do it on RBX. Granted it would be a nice backupfeature if you forgot to analyze a folder with tracks Before a gig.

But did you even Watch the video?, it took forever on the SC 5000, imagine that you would analyze and play the Music at the same time. i dont give a rats A** if the SC 5000 is a dual or quadcore.

it wont cope. why, well Denon has not earlier experiece of building computers or Heavy load Equipment. Ive been a dj for over 27 years now, ive built loads om computers, competed in Both dj battles and overclocking championchips. I know what it takes, and im certain that Denon eventually will reach its potential, just not now. You wanna act testpilots gambling your own Money?

What Denon should have done, was extensive R&D, Before displaying or launching their new hardware. They need to STRESS-TEST Before launch, and they havent.

Regarding price, its a joke, its to steep for a new IP from a company that just plain failed before, The last player i saw in a proclub were the DN 3700, then it were zip, nada all quiet. Then they released SC2900 and 3900 which were even inferior to the CDJ 2000, not to mention the Nexus IP.

Im no fanboy, just realist over what works and what the majority demand.

I love my CDJs 2ks, 2KNxs2 and my DN 3700s as well. ill never get rid of them, they are a masterpiece of techical exellence.

Before jumping the gun, try em out, i waited until i could try the CDJ / DJM nxs2 before i pulled the trigger. do the same with Denon, but BEWARE!

Cheers

/MDB

The new denon Player is about to be released first videos look great about the many functions and Analyse speed of new tracks.

Laidbackluke just put up a video showing what he likes about the new Denon sc5000 players.  He mentioned that from now on he will only be using Denon prime equipment.  Good to see Denon is pushing the envelope, I knew if Denon showed durability they would get a lot of praise but didn't think it would happen so fast for someone like Laidbackluke to switch so quickly from pioneer to Denon.  

Your move Pioneer, just look at the emails I sent you in the past and present everything you need to do is there.  

@Martin db

just want to tell you that I played with the new Denon decks this past weekend at the CDJ Show in Toronto and you are wrong dude...They have done a great job with it and it is definitely worthy of being called the new competition to the CDJ 2000NXS2's as they really do offer a lot more thank the current NXS2's at a lower price point. the quality of the build was very impressive also. the chases, touch screen, pads all were high quality and did not disappoint. I can also say that Denon has great back end support as well which helps steer people to their direction along with a chapter price.

To be clear, I am a long time Pioneer user, fan, and supporter but logic is logic when it comes to how I spend my hard earned money.  If the Pioneer decks don't go down in price to reflect the new market, I will go with the Denon decks and I am sure I won't be alone. To be fair, I will admit, I would not change my Pioneer DJM for a Denon mixer as denon doesn't have anything to compete with my DJM yet (IMO). This is simply based on comparing apples to apples and to be fair, the Denons seem like a better bang for your buck when they offer more than the CDJs ever have at a lower price especially.

i will say something in the simplest way possible.  I don't like the way the Denon players look from the videos and photos i've seen.  The knobs, buttons, jog wheels, rotary selector all look cheaper to me than Pioneer product. I especially dislike the sharp lines on the side of the jog wheels.  It is too early to tell but i don't think Pioneer will just sit back and is probably working on something right now that will do all this and more.  The good thing is that this will push Pioneer to evolve their upper end players substantially. IMO I don't like most of the music that LBL supports and although he is a very talented individual i see this as a money move for him.  Someone previously mentioned the mixer being sub-par and by the looks of it, it seems this way.  Pioneer understands the majority of the market is in controllers and smaller affordable controllers but they may have ignored the fact that the reason they are so popular is due to the industry reliability and trust they had from the BIG names.  If they lose the support/trust from the big names the smaller products they make will also slowly lose support.  Pioneer has the best resale of any dj product do to top production/reliability so in this market i'm still weary with the Denon players.   

@patrizio_moro

I don't know about you but I have been buying Pioneer CDJs since the CDJ 800 MK1s were released back in the day.  I too am more comfortable with the Pioneer CDJs but I will not dismiss the fact that is because it's all I have looked at for years.  

One thing I failed to mention in my previous post (above) is that I am just happy we will have a choice now.  It is no secret that Pioneer has enjoyed the fact that there hasn't really been any competition to their flagship CDJs (which I think has even translated to a price hike which they proved with the NXS2). Again, I am excited for the choice we all now have as competition only helps bring positive vibes in every aspect to this industry.  The fact that companies will try harder to win my business tells me they will try harder to give me more value for my dollars which has not been the case for some time now.

Happy that new days are ahead and I hope we, the smaller guys that make up more of the industry can benefit more from them.

Just my 2 cents :)

Whats most troublesome are the fact that most of you teary-eyed guys have no clue. Just a mockup for LL and some fancy biznames that inmusic have drowned in money. And you swallow it all.

Let me ask you this

Are you ready to gamble away your money on a whim and a brand, that has not been a real part of this industry for allmost a decade?

I know i wont. ive been part of this culture and trade for over 25 year. Ive owned alot of gear, incl Denon & Pioneer so im fair in my judgement.

Theres only been a short demo with smalltalk how good this
players are. Laidback Luke, i have a ton of respect for the guy, but here he is out in the wild, guessing!

1. There is no cd/dvd drive, and when the ports are failing, and they will, your fukked.

2. knobs / buttons seem fragile / flimsy, wont take a beating, Pioneer and much older Denons have their trackrecord (DENIN) have not.

3. Engine Prime has alot to prove, last engine crashed and burned.

4. Denon has not released a pro tabletop since 2012, and even then people were not really impressed, engine was a joke, the players were even worse than DN3700, which i manage to spin in some clubs, after that, no denon anywere.

5. Price, well look at the alphatrack (1player 2 tracks), nothing new at all, how many really used that feature?, i had it on my S5000s and DN 9000, did i use it?, a couple of times, it was more of a fad thena real feature.

6. Denon need to cut price, the pro djs i know wont touch this even with a ten feet pole. Theyve been burned that the scars and dislikes runs deep.

7. Quality and reliability , This machine need to work flawlessly for many many hours right out the box, let say they put this in the booths on Tomorrowland or WMC and this start to crack up, then what, it could happen.

8. Firmware and software, if engine prime are just a tiny fraction unstable as engine were,its game over. the same goes for the firmware. Get some angry or disappointed customers and throw some bad service or support in the mix and In music will be OUT soon.

No i am skeptical when it comes to the new Denon, Pioneer are certainly not flawless, but i can feel both safe and somewhat secure knowing the gear will hold up and sound crisp and clear.

"Buy the SC5000, but dont whine if it fails on you"

P.S Did you watch the dancefair demo and LLs mix on his Vlog.
Personally i think this was his worst mixing and performnce up to date
music was not only off beat by a mile but off key as well.

I dont care if Tiesto, LL, Okefold or Heldens choose denon

Its so clear its about the money. Most of the guys dont need dual dekks
anyway, when they play a preprod mixtape.

geez!

There seems to be some confusion in the DJ community surrounding the release of Denon DJs new SC5000 player in the PRIME series of products. For reasons unknown, the new player from Denon DJ is being compared to the Pioneer DJ lineup of ‘similar looking’ products, like the CDJ-2000NXS2. I would like to point out some of the flaws in that line of thinking, and try to cast some light on what the new player from Denon DJ is.

First of all – let me just start off by saying that I, along with all DJs out there, welcome competition in the DJ world. Competition is a healthy thing, it pushes innovation and new thoughts, as well as stimulating prices in the markets. For that reason alone, we should all welcome Denon DJs effort in trying to enter a new market. I personally wish the all the luck in the world, and regardless of their success – I am sure it has been an eye opener to some of the guys in marketing- and RnD departments at Pioneer DJ and others around the world.

Pioneer, and not just the DJ part, has always delivered an exceptional build- and craftsmanship quality in their products. Their high-end devices has always relied on in-house developed circuitry and ASICs, rather than going for the cheaper OEM route. The results speak for themselves, and this is how Pioneer DJ has held the throne for so long, virtually without competition.

Denon DJ has taken another route, and a route taken before by so many others. Rather than spending a fortune on developing own circuitry, processors and ASICs – they’ve opted for the embedded PC route – relying on a generic x86/64 architecture to run their new devices. This gives access to a plethora of readily available software- and driver codes, and development can be done using well known tools. There is nothing wrong with choosing this route, but the choice of running a system on an embedded PC means you have very specific software- and hardware considerations and limitations.

Durability as fault-tolerance is the first thing that comes to mind. As we all know, a PC requires an operating system to work. Where Pioneer DJ can customize every little aspect of their chips and software/drivers to an extremely close-knit – Denon DJ has to rely on constraints of both the x86/64 hardware architecture, and the OS that runs on top of it. In the fight of integrated circuits versus embedded x86/64 – the latter never wins when it is put to the test of durability and torture.

The new Denon DJ SC5000 player is essentially an integrated 2 deck controller. It is a PC with a touch monitor display, two soundcards, memory and IO ports for jogwheel, buttons and stuff. It all runs on a PCI bus architecture. While it have the visual similarities to say a CDJ-2000NXS2, and share many of its features - the SC5000 is a PC. If you’d like to compare SC5000 to something from Pioneer DJ, the closest thing I can think of are the DDJ series controller that relies on a PC with software to work.

Based on the information i have at this point i will not invest in the new Denon players. I will wait and see what Pioneer has to offer on their next high end stand alone players.

Some haven't been fortunate enough to touch and play on  the new Denon players but seeing reactions about them being "good" isn't good enough.  I've watched videos, read technical articles and my current stance is that i will not sell my 2 CDj 2000 nexus player and DJM 2000 nexus mixer to go to the new Denon gear.  I will instead wait for what Pioneer has to offer in the next year.  

I think it is too early to tell and i believe the Denon pricing is still  too high.  Period.

The release of the sc5000 was delayed (again) so it's gonna take some time before we finally can compare it to the pio players.

@Tobias; Just make sure you compare it to the right product. The SC5000s are computer based DJ controllers.

The sc5000 and engine prime has been released, the challenge has begun.

I'm curious on peoples real comparisons now that they can actually get them in their hands

Engine Prime is great, Much smoother then Rekordbox, its missing some features but it is the first release so we shall see how it goes. I plan on testing a SC500 out hopefully this week 

So I just tested one out, I'll stick with the NXS2 for now, maybe denon will update the fw soon with fixes and features

it felt really sturdy and well built but within 5 minutes of playing with it the track stopped and the deck rebooted on its own, right there was a sign, lol

the platter is nice but heavy in weight so you definitely have to get used to it vs the CDJ platters, not a bad thing, just different,

the 2 things that I didn't like

1. the rubbery cue/loop/roll buttons, I like the pioneer plastic click type buttons vs the rubbery kind. for me (just my opinion and personal preference) I feel the Pioneer buttons are more responsive vs the rubbery kin

2. the search is string search meaning you can't type in multiple variations of a track to pull it up quick like typing "found Rihanna" for We Found Love. thats a big thing for me, I search a lot and the NXS2 finally added that feature to search like this so in that search area, pioneer wins for me

let me know if you guys have any questions, I spent a good 30 minutes on one so I got a good feel for it

Actually, I don't care much what is inside the Players. If it is self developed Chips or if it is a Standard PC architecture.

What is most important is stability, robustness, functionality, handling, maintaining the Music library.

Most of the previous discussion is based on guessing based what could be found on the web. As the SC5000 is now available in the market there has to be proof if they can meet all my requirements. Usually I like fancy new stuff, but here I will not be an early adopter. At least for me it is far too early to take a decision but I will have a closer look to see if bugs coming out, Units are failing or how engine prime is moving forward.

As I spend a lot of time to maintain my library, I will not redo everything on a new platform. Even if the Players would be a success, migrating the library is critical to change the gear. Right now it seem to be only possible from rekordbox to Serato to Engine Prime. And even that seem to have issues right now. As I am having a lot of tracks analysed with the dynamic method in rekordbox, even using Rekord Buddy is not full Option at this time.

But I will follow this closely and open minded.
We don't know what Pioneer will release in the future. For now I sit back and relax... 

The new owners of PioneerDJ should DUMP Rekordbox software.

Mandating that a DJ use one specific software just doesn't cut it, but when hot-swaping gear out, trying to interlink non Rekrodbox files doesn't work

I think Denon has sold way less then predicted and that may cause problems for them in the future. Mind you that Pioneer have had the throne for almost a decade. That is something that is not to be taken lightly. And everyone and place ive been has had Pioneer as main setups. No Denon anywhere. It may change. But im confident that Pioneer will keep the throne a bit longer. As they continue to develop their ecosystem. Just like Apple does. Im on the way to fire away on the DJS 1000 as well. Just to cement  my act as a dj and producer even further. Im oldschool and i want to turn, twist and push things. Not arrange things in a computer or make playlists beforehand. Thats not my style. Never have been. And with Rekordbox 5 im certain they will succeed. Im quite happy where im at. But of course there are levels for improvement when it comes to the hardware and software. There always are. And for me Denon is not an option right now.

The Denons are good but not great,i played with them and really it aint worth breaking up my combo for those decks, the features are kool but they are something that won't be always used except for the 2 track layer per deck that was the only thing that almost made me wanna get them but now i rather stick to what i know instead of learning later what i would be stuck with,with the djs and cdjs its enough to get creative,i wish they would come out with new fx machine like a new rmx or something its been a while.But i dont think denon did as well as expected plus pioneer is fludding the market with controllers not leaving gaps for competitors to enter,its gonna be hard at this point for a company to take the throne as far as dj units go ,on the production side they will need a lot of work to catch up to the monsters but with hard work i dont doubt they can get the dj's to buy their products and if the succeed and get better,producers might even give them a shot i do both and mess with both akai and pioneer ,akai setup more for when producing and pioneer when djing.

I wonder if pioneer has something in plan like a cdj 3000 which will have more layers, performance pads, etc to compete with the prime series. For me I’m happy with the Cdjs cause I don’t need more for my setups. Two jogs, cue and got cues and that’s all I need. I also playing with Traktor and there are of course more posssibilities but I don’t need this staff maybe because I’m too old school.