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Rekordbox control vinyl issue

Hi, 
I just started to use Rekordbox DVS with new Rekordbox control vinyls.
When my cartridge touches the vinyls then it makes some really high frequency and loud noise. 

My setup is:
2x Ortofon Pro DJ
Pioneer djm 450

Only the control vinyls making this annoying noise, is any idea why? 
I don't really understand because serato and traktor control vinyls doesn't make any sound with the cartridges.
Thanks

Olavi Foldi

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Yes of course it's on USB. But the noise is not even digital, it's not from the mixer (the mixer also get it btw). It's a physical noise what the cartridge makes only because i put the stylus on the vinyl. It's like a sinus sign and it's directly from where the vinyl and needle touchning each other. You can also here the tracks from real vinyl when you put the needle on it. This is the same physical sound but its a high frequency continous noise. 
I have no idea what is this, because my ortofons are working perfectly with any other kind of vinyls, so this noise should be caused by the control vinyls. I just never heard any similar issue at all and the noise is very annoying.

Olavi Foldi 0 votes
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So i dont even have to turn my mixer on, only the turntable, i put the control vinyl on it and im playing it and the cartridge is whistle this noise. I hope you can understand what i mean :)

Olavi Foldi 0 votes
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Perfectly normal? So should i use the time code system at home only on loud volume because on lower volume (not silent, normal home music listening volume) that whistle noise is "perfectly" audible? I mean the problem is not only with my ears, if any of my friends is at my place and we are playing then they are asking me to turn that noise off somehow (impossible), so my question here showed up with reason. I'm not saying it's very loud, but because of the high frequency noise it is so annoying and i never heard it on any other time code system. First i thought it's a wrong vinyl cut...but 2\2 vinyls can't be wrong.
I love Pioneer that's why i choose the Rekordbox DVS and not the other brands, i thought it should be a good option, but i never thought i have to deal also with an ear killer noise too, it wasn't in the specifications.
So...if i understand well your answer means: "sorry, it is what it is." ?

Olavi Foldi 0 votes
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The sound you're hearing is the stylus physically moving within the groove of the vinyl. If you used a different stylus you may have a different amount of noise.

If you played a regular record, you'd hear the music. The timecode vinyl is a high-frequency tone, so it's particularly more audible.

So yes, "it is what it is." This is how this thing works.

Pulse 0 votes
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I totally understand this and thank you for your quick answer.

But in this case it is really what it is:
- I used serato and traktor time code also...without any noise, not even a tiny one. 
Not only on 1 type of turntable and not only with 1 kind of stylus, even with mine which worked well.

- When i bought my djm450 (because of the new Pio DVS system i had to buy a mixer which can wotk with it), i haven't seen any warning about that "sorry our product could be noisy with some of the stylus" or "only with loud music even at home" or "your stylus could function as a sinus synth too".

I just expected the same quality what the other brands can give. Well, i expected even better, that's why i bought it. 

Whatever, i learnt something...so now i have a dvs system on sale :)
I also should say, except this noise the all system working very well, i'm not disappointed in that, but this noise from the control vinyl is killing the pleasure.

Thanks and regards

Olavi Foldi 0 votes
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I got 2 Control Vinyls. I can confirm what Olavi said - but - the frequency doesn't seem to be driven by the Vinyl itself.

I got 2 Technics SL-1210MK2 with the same Ortofon system on. One has a high frequency - pretty annoying - the other one has a much lower frequency. When switching sides or change the Control Vinyl from one player to the other, the high frequency is always with the same Player.

Therefore I don't think it has to do with the Vinyl but how the system is installed and adjusted with the turntable.

I need to do some more testing to find out if it can be changed with the adjustment of the System.

Frank Richter 0 votes
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@Frank > Are both players set up with the exact same weighting on the tonearm? If one is running a heavier weight or older stylus, it may result in a different sound being emitted from the contact.

Pulse 0 votes
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Hi Pulse.

They both running with the same measures. As it is a System which is installed on a tray there is a possibility that there is a small mismatch in the angle and the needle from one Player is not Fitting 100% the same as for the other Player.

I will changing the System on both Players anyway soon and therefore will not investigate on this more....
But I will let you know once having the new System installed.

PS: My old Systems were pretty old - haven't used them a lot lately, but now I have more fun with the DVS function in rekordbox :-)

Frank Richter 0 votes
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@Pulse.

After changing the Systems on both Players to an Ortofon Concorde DJ S the differences between both Players are gone. Both Control Vinyl 'sound' pretty much the same.

They are pretty 'loud' (when listening just to the Players) compared to a normal Vinyl. But this might be due to the structure of the data read.

During practicing at home you realize the 'sound' of the Control Vinyl. When performing in the Club you don't due to the loud Environment :-)

Thanks

Frank Richter 0 votes
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@Pulse

Any update to this control vinyl "sound" issue? And yes, its an issue.

I have a live studio setup for broadcast. With monitors on, control vinyl tone is manageable. When mic is engaged, the monitors are cut-off and the music ducks via DSP like radio studios do. This results in better sounding voice on the air. But...not when you have a high-frequency timecode vinyl tone in the background.

Please advise. Thanks

Sohlman 0 votes
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@Sohlman > Unfortunately the answer is that the "stylus noise" can only be reduced by changing the cart / stylus you are using. I don't have a definitive answer as to which ones are quietest, but I do know that I've used some which were much louder than others.

Pulse 0 votes
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I just got a DJM-750MK2, and I was excited about the included dvs system.  Unfortunately, the noise from the needles is so annoying that I'm going to give up on it.  The only way to not hear it is to drown it out with ultra high volumes.  I don't always like to play this loud, and this noise is more annoying than the Emergency Broadcast System.  I am also using Ortofon DJ Blue Concorde needles, and I don't own alternate needles for testing.

DJ SONAR 0 votes
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This is the same with any "timecode" vinyl; the physical friction of the stylus in contact with the control tone pressed on the vinyl is causing the noise, this is not unique to rekordbox DVS as it would be the same for Serato, Traktor, Virtual, or any other tone-based DVS.

Pulse 0 votes
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@Pulse I completely disagree. I've tried several Ortofon cartridges (older to the latest), they are ALL loud on rekordbox timecode vinyl. Same cartridges on Traktor, Serato, Mixvibes...significantly quieter. Spent a year with rekordbox dvs, finally gave up...many tickets. Maybe rekordbox 6 will improve it. I truly believe that a simple 45rpm optimized timecode vinyl will solve a lot of the issues, including dampening the "stylus noise." But I'm no engineer, just end-user.

With that said, I'm still a huge fan of rekordbox dj. The dvs just needs to catch up.

Sohlman 0 votes
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@Sohlman > They all have a different tone, but they all DO make noise to some degree.

Pulse 0 votes
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Just bought myself DJM250MKII and Ortofon Concorde Digital MKII twin set. The cartridge sound is the number 1 major downside of DVS which wasn't mentioned on any information website, review or walkthrough video I saw before buying the product. It's definitely noisy and disturbing when playing in home setup.

Reading former comments I'm considering changing control vinyls.

Can I use control vinyls from other brands with Rekordbox with minor synchronisation quality loss? I play tracks mostly from beginning to end and don't scratch a lot.

Just stumbled upon this comparison video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaPRSR_Iqgg

I read Traktor, Serato, Mixvibes are significantly quieter but it's not very clear to me when looking at the video.

What's the best alternative for Rekordbox control vinyl?

Thomas Wouters 0 votes
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@Thomas Wouters That video demonstrates the timecode signal tone, not the sound coming from the stylus on timecode vinyl. I've tested or witnessed several and RB is definitely louder than all others. Uncomfortably louder, no matter what stylus used. Maybe try Traktor or Serato, they are much quieter. Sorry RB.

RB6 has come and no fix, update or explanation for why dvs is not a priority anymore. Considering the huge growth in vinyl and home DJ setups, it's kinda baffling that it won't be addressed. Very disappointing.

Sohlman 0 votes
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@Sohlman Thanks for the feedback. I've ordered a pair of Serato Performance Series (black) to make the comparison. If it's significantly better I'm considering to return the DJM250MKII and step over to a Serato compatible DVS mixer. I'm using Synq X-TRM1 as turntables btw.

Do you still have a DVS setup? Any buying suggestions?

I'd like to stick to the basics. Not interested in effects, BPM counters or glossy buttons. Quality sound output and durability prevail.

Preferrably a 4-channel mixer, as I just found out I can't listen to previews on a 2-channel mixer (another limitation you have to deal with which wasn't mentioned on any reviews...)

Best regards,

Thomas

Thomas Wouters 0 votes
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