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Future Support or nah?

What's the future roadmap of updates looking like? Toraiz posters have given a large number of feature suggestions, as well as submitted bug reports, and there hasn't been much activity on the Pioneer side of things. With products like Akai's new standalone MPC's right around the corner, it would be nice to have some assurance that there are actual plans to implement software features that will keep the Toraiz competitive. In the beginning, there were clear roadmaps of what was promised, and you guys did a great job sticking to them and working with the customer base's requests for features. If that's over, let us know that "live looping" is the last thing the engineer's are adding before tying a bow around this product and moving on, so that people can make informed decisions.

For me personally, if live looping is the only thing left on the update list then I'll be looking to sell the Toraiz asap. It's workflow is nice, but in the end the actual feature set of the unit is underwhelming for actual hardware production.

Thanks and have a great weekend.

-Chris

Chrishogandj Answered

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Sorry guys, the engineers aren't always going to lay all their cards on the table for all the updates the have planned, or if there are other updates available. If they announce something, win! If you get an unexpected update, win!

But yes, they are still taking your comments and feedback into consideration where possible.

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Not necessarily... they don't reply every day but they follow this forum also if they discuss about the futur updates plan they can't give informations... if all is not validate internally. They can also don't want anymore to give their plan on some firmware update version (like 2 or 3 version by advanced) because it's very engaging and risky that I can understand. But That's doesn't mean they will stop to update. AS-1 just to release so they probably working on both at the same time now so double charge of development ;)

Jessie James 0 votes
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I'm starting to look at the SP-16 as a partner with my MPC and not a replacement. I don't expect the SP-16 to be everything an MPC does and lobbying Pioneer to turn it into an MPC is pointless. The SP-16 does some things that frustrate me about the MPCs and I mean actual hardware MPC.

 

The Good

That darn slow attack on the MPC forcing me to convert sample libraries to insert silence. SP-16 reads more formats and doesn't need that inserted silence - no need to convert libraries for it.

x0x step programming with Elektron style p-locks suits me far better than banging pads on time. And the MPC just cannot do the p-locks other than 1 parameter.

Auto time stretch. *mike drop*

SP-16 lovely visuals and premium feel. Why not drive a ferrari?

 

The Bad

Muting is all wrong! Mute the triggering of playback, not the audio of the track. In the same way muting a midi track stops new midi notes, muting a sample track should let the current audio continue and stop new triggers playing the sample. Unmuting causes the sample or fx trail to jump in immediately and it is very unmusical.

Monophonic track playback. Yes I knew this before buying but sometimes I want a loop to play and overlay the release tail with the loop starting again. Ambient pads or background grunge noise especially. I can work around this with the sample on 2 tracks alternating.

 

Right now I use the SP-16 for beat making and the MPC for the other production jobs. I think Pionerr got the beat making for DJs exactly right. Beats and loops alongside playing tracks on the decks? Yes. But as your studio center for full production, its not quite there. Pioneer will want to consider if these production wants are the direction they want to go. Whatever they decide, the worst scenario for me is a SP-16 Production Centre model out next NAMM. Please don't do that...

 

Bryan Ferguson 0 votes
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@Bryan Ferguson

We don't ask to pioneer to make the TORAIZ like an MPC. We just ask about updates planning ext after 1.4 to know if Pioneer (I speaking for me) will make the TORAIZ as they show in Musikmesse Frankfurt APRIL 2016, with 2 FX slots by tracks.

For me it's very important I buy the TORAIZ based on what they show and I was surprised at release they didn't correspond to Musikmesse 2016 model.

If the TORAIZ have not the power to 2 FX slots, I really hope they make 1 EQ + FX1 or at least 2,3 or 4 Send FX to be able to Mixing and assign few effects at the same time.

They sale it as a professional sampler for dj and producer. But the producer need more than playing loops in sync with other pioneer gear because we haven't ;)

We don't ask to pioneer to make the TORAIZ like an MPC. and You start to compare and gives things on TORAIZ that suit you better but is it a general case on something coming from Electron device or computer ? No. (so it's subjective to people who had an MPC)

 

For instance MUTE on the TORAIZ is ok for me. I can criticize the 32 seconds limit with the SCALE functionality for instance. If you like to play clean and realism notes and not pitched sound (scale algorithm Toraiz time stretch) it's hard to get something nice. You can make a file on 32 secondes with 12 Bass notes and play the slices instead of SCALE one sample (because after 4 pads higher or lower you really heard the difference with algorithm, same without it's just playing fast or slow) You can't have a proper octave of pads anything long... You can bounce 2 bars 2 notes... SO with preparation you can't really make something on the TORAIZ to me except by Midi with a SYNTH controlled by the TORAIZ. it's really oriented short sounds and beats (one shots + 4 bars Loop max)

When you have plenty of Collection of sample you need to filter everything longer than 32secondes before to import on the TORAIZ it can take time to it. otherwise you will have this warning popup everything you select or pre-listening. it's just annoying

 Also Sample editing for a professional SAMPLER is very limited : only START, Loop and END point and crop if saving as. You can't normalize on Sample recorded on the TORAIZ, Trim, Cut, Silence, Fade in, Fade out ...

copy, cut, paste, undo, redo general operations are also frustrating.

Jessie James 0 votes
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> We don't ask to pioneer to make the TORAIZ like an MPC.

Threads regularly complain about features on other samples including MPC. I personally think that confuses the issue. It's not an MPC and my post said I was glad to be rid of some MPC limitations.


> But the producer need more than playing loops in sync with other pioneer gear

It's a pattern sequencer and not designed for song mode. No promises were made at announcement about a song mode. Chaining patterns of course but not song length tracks.


>  it's really oriented short sounds and beats (one shots + 4 bars Loop max)

Yes, yes it is. SP-16 is not for your apparently. I'm also finding that longer non-loop based recording need to be on other hardware or software. Currently that is an MPC5000 or Logic Pro X for me.


> When you have plenty of Collection of sample you need to filter everything longer than 32secondes before to import on the TORAIZ it can take time to it

There are no sample libraries with 32s or longer samples. If you mean music tracks, you could be using rekorDBox and exporting loops. I highly recommend it even if you don't use any Pioneer gear. But if you really have >32s recordings, you can use a number of audio editors which will batch trim all your files to the first 32 seconds.


> Also Sample editing for a professional SAMPLER is very limited : only START, Loop and END point and crop if saving as. You can't normalize on Sample recorded on the TORAIZ, Trim, Cut, Silence, Fade in, Fade out ...

Well, now you're sounding like it should be an MPC or something. No personal offence but the limits of the SP-16 are pretty clear. You're asking for entirely new features, I think asking for fixes and small changes is more realistic.

Bryan Ferguson 0 votes
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It's a pattern sequencer and not designed for song mode. No promises were made at announcement about a song mode. Chaining patterns of course but not song length tracks.

> I'm not speaking about SONG mode : Arrangement is fine for me.
(I edited my post it's not easy for Audio rendered but it's doable I think Live make a bad job with amorce of long file and Warping so you need to match every stems to your session with is a bit complicated but as I said : doable. I don't think it's Toraiz do a bad job I guess it's Ableton live. Anyway so far so good this is usable)

 

There are no sample libraries with 32s or longer samples

> you absolutely wrong if you take every collection based on moving, evolving, textures, speech voice etc...

 

You're asking for entirely new features

> as I said I'm asking primarily for FX2 as it's announced before the release at musicmesse 2016 ... 

Jessie James 0 votes
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