Updated firmware for RR and RX pitch?

Well Pioneer (EU) finally responded to my email about the pitch faders (3 questions - are they 14 bit, what's the part number and will they be releasing an update like with the RZ):

Regarding any quires with your setup, we are unfortunately not able to help directly with specific details as we can’t replicate everybody’s setups.

We suggest the following to answer your queries, and other details.

Ask your dealer for some help as they will have product in the shops and can test out many of these issues.

Contact the manufactures of the DJ Software you are using, as lot of issues are with the software.

Check Pioneer DJ.Com/Support for all Driver and Firmware updates

If you have a and Issue with Rekord box or any questions related to Rekord box setup or issues please follow this link.

 https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=72145

Nice one Pioneer - thanks.... :(

Hey guys, I understand your frustration.  I believe this issue may exist due to the fact that fader length on the RR is significantly shorter than the full size controllers.  I will mention this to the product team and inquire about a possible fix but I can not make any guarantees that it will be addressed due to the fader length.  I will report back with any replies I receive.  Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Why should that affect things?

I understand there is no way to make it as accurate as the rz for example,, but if it truly is running in 14 bit mode (as your own manual suggests), there is definitely scope to get some better increments in there.

You have to move it a good mm to get a change registered (especially around 0) which isn't really acceptable on such an expensive controller.

My denon mc6000 has the same size faders (60mm right? ) and that has no problem in hi res mode.

I'm traveling at the moment, but when I get back, I'll confirm if my unit is even sending the lsb.

Wooo - just back and updated - very accurate now, thank you Pioneer.

Also - the dead zone has now decreased to about half a notch too :)

I guess maybe now we should fight for the RX owners as well ... ;)

Pulse... Anyway you can check on this?

bump for interest.

just for understanding: what was that fix on the rz regarding the pitch?

i wish the pitch resolution of my rr would be higher to cover 0,01 steps on this way too short pitchfader :-(

the fix made the pitch faders behave more like the CDJ's (better accuracy)

Yup, got the BPM range down to 0.02 - making a world of difference.

Although the RR pitch fader is shorter, it should be capable of the same resolution - well, I hope so, as I just bought one to use when away from home and my RZ.

So come on Pioneer, you gonna update us?

yeah 0,02 steps would be great :-)

Two weeks and no reply, poor form...

Ok, so my RR just arrived - and oh my goodness.

Apart from the pitch fader physically feeling terrible (so much horizontal movement) - the incremental range when at 10% is 0.12 BPM!! The only way to get sub 0.10 is to switch to 6% range.

Please can we get this sorted - if I want to do any sort of long / effects based mix, I dont want to have to keep adjusting the speed all the time :(

Put pressure on them. This is an issue affecting the board in any software irregardless of OS or system configuration.

Thank you Mark :)

I don't think the length is the issue though - looking at the Midi code table, it says it should support 14 bit (it lists values for both the MSB and LSB, exactly the same as the RZ)

It seems though it's just running in 7bit mode and not utilizing the LSB (or is it MSB, ha, I always get them mixed up)

EDIT: The smaller size of the faders is also the reason why we need them working in 14 bit mode - it's hard enough as it is at that size, the higher the accuracy the better!

big thx for your reply mark! yes, the fader seems to be only working in 7 bit midi mode, would be great to set it to 14bit ...or even better use the hid protocol that the fader sends ;-)

we got the luck that the ddj rr is hid supported atm it seems that only the jog uses hid mode and the buttons etc are midi but they all send hid too.

i think it should be no problem to use this fader in hid mode and get the best resolution.

as said before one the really bad things of the rr is this fucking short pitch slider :-) it's only usable in 6% mode.

Just heard back from the product team and, unfortunately, my original belief was confirmed.  The current resolution can not be improved due to the pitch fader's range of motion.  We apologize for any inconvenience.

but the fader is def sending hid and hid has a way better Resolution than midi. may be the midi is only 7bit but hid seems to be available, so why not using this?

Ok, so I wanted to have proper facts before I posted anymore, just to stop speculation.

Firstly, here's confirmation of the Denon running in 14 bit more on a 60mm fader (click features):

http://denondj.com/products/view/dn-mc6000

And running Traktor (I couldn't get it working on Rekordbox) - I was able to get the BPM (on a 175bpm track) to pretty much match every time.

So onto the RR - Between the first 2 white notches and the last 2 white notches, there is actually no data transmitted (both sides the same), so it seems this is only a 50mm fader and by hooking it into Midi monitor, I can also confirm it's *not* running in 7bit mode.

From 0 > Max - you get 286 messages (143 steps) the same with Min > 0.

The MSB goes in complete singles (so 64, 65, 66)  as expected and then the LSB has 2 values between each (sometimes 3) hence getting just over 128 steps.

This is the issue - the LSB needs to be more precise than this.

Currently, a 175BPM song, using the 6% pitch mode (so max 185.5), can only get a 0.07 adjustment ((185.5 - 175) / 143) - run that in 10% mode and it's even worse ((192.5-175) / 143) with 0.12 adjustments.

To get down to 0.02 style adjustments (as they just did with the RZ) you would need 9 LSB values per MSB. I suspect this might be an issue with the size of the fader, but they should definitely be able to do better than 2. Squeezing 5 in there, whilst not perfect, will allow at least 320 values, so 0.03bpm increments - I mean, the fader is half the length, so it should have at least half the values right?

Hell, even a single extra value gets you down to 0.05....

So Pionner - we ask you could perhaps have another look at this and see if you can't do a little better.

Of course, the fader length excuse doesn't make sense for the RX owners at all, but it seems they aren't very vocal here!

Oh and just to add, the volume faders are also 50mm in length, but manage to get an extra 15% of steps in there (336, or 168 per "side")

I have forwarded your notes to the engineering team.  I will post any reply I receive here.

Got hold of a DDJ-RB to test today.

0 > Max is 145 steps (290 inc LSB) - and this is on a 40mm fader with zero dead zone (well, a tiny bit of about a mm or so at the top and bottom)

So technically, that makes the RB more accurate than the RR!

This should be proof of something, the RR fader being 50% bigger, should have at least 50% better accuracy than the RB!

(Unless of course the issue is the ADC - which would totally suck)

Us RR owners look forward to the engineers solution ;)

any news on this? have to deal every weekend with this low res pitch control :-( why not just use hid (the fader sends hid you can check this with several tools) instead of this low res res midi? would get way higher resolution like the jog of the rr does for example. the jog uses hid and the rest of the controls seem to be midi why not use the advantages of hid on the pitch fader?

Still not heard anything :(

Sorry for the delay.  The engineers are still looking into this.  Thank you for your continued patience and understanding.

Thanks Mark.

If they could also solve the "dead marker" zones at the top and bottom, that would be super awesome too!

fyi it seems that the vdj mapping uses hid on the pitchfader of the rr. way better resolution!

Hey Mark... There's patience and there's patience....

...same here :-( pitch on this device is still horrible. really don't know why they use midi. vdj uses hid on the pitch and Resolution is really fine even with the dead space.

I'll follow up with the engineering team.

thx mark!