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Rekordbox tagging (ID3) and database questions

Hello, i have just started using Rekordbox with my new CDJ 2000 and DJM 900, I have a few questions about the tagging inside rekordbox and the database its generating. 

Can we get any confirmation on what ID3 tags Rekordbox can read and what ID3 tags Rekordbox can write back to the music files? And or if its deleting any of the original tags form the music files?

Its pretty disappointing if Rekordbox  only uses its proprietary DB to tag the music files. That mean that all the hard work with tagging will be useless in Serato, Traktor or any other application that supports the open ID3 tags.

Pioneer Rekordbox should always use ID3 and or other open formats at much as possible. Its really irritating with all the proprietary databses. If this is not possible because of design, Pioneer should really consider opening up its database / API so other applications can read the database files \ tags and or convert it.

I hope you guys take this into consideration, as tagging, adding custom cue points and organizing music takes a lot of time and work.

Thanks.

Bjoervik

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51 comments

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I feel, if Pioneer could sort the album ratings problem out, that is probably Apples fault anyway, then it would make everything ok as I could manage everything in iTunes and just sync to Rekordbox. 

Still makes it a shame as Rekordbox - like it is marketed as an organisational tool - could be incredible.

Sam 0 votes
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Hey, @Sam Test it, let me know if it does it.  Do this....


1. Write something in one of the "broken tags" in Rekordbox written above in my long list. Go check the tag in other software and it should be there without any issues.

2. Now, go back into Rekordbox and erase that tag completely to make it a blank space. Exit the software go into another DJ software and the tag that was supposed to be deleted will be there (but not in Rekordbox).

3. If you open Rekordbox again after you see it in other software, the tag won't be there until you hit reload tag, the tag will come back to Rekordbox eventhough it was deleted.

I'm using Windows 10, but I think this issue has always been there.  I would like to know if everyone can replicate the issue.

 

Why this causes a problem:

- Reload tags in Rekordbox or Async in Traktor is good for synching tracks that have been modified outside the software.  So for example: Let's say you go in the Operating system of the computer (ex Win, Mac OS) and modify a tag without software, you want your databases of DJ software to be able to update.  But DJ software take their own database as priority (in a small file). This is why with Traktor, I always do "check consistency" or "Async" when I know I updated some tags outside of it, so that Traktor reflects those changes, and everything is perfect.  But with Rekordbox, you can't do that properly. As stated above. 

Let me know if you can replicate the issue.  I'm using Win10.  Thanks

 

Alexis 0 votes
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@ Sam, btw... The rating you mentioned is also included in the my long list of "broken tags" on the first page that don't act properly.  So what happens if that when you try to clear the stars (ratings), they stay in other software, it's the same problem I mentioned above for the testing.

Alexis 0 votes
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@Alexis, ok so I'm running OS X Yosemite and only use on DJ software atm (rekordbox), so I tested it against iTunes and Tag Editor and got the same result as you.

Sam 0 votes
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Also i found that if you change say 'artist' in Rekordbox it does update the tag in iTunes when you play it but if you then change the said tag again it creates a new file (or it did in my case but this might be because when it updated in iTunes it decided to bring the track number back that I deleted along time ago) and when you finally get back into Rekordbox it can't find the file.

Sam 0 votes
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@Sam, and the worse part is that it's easy to fix. I've done some programming before and I know it's a communication issue in their company.  That's why other DJ software such as Traktor have a check-mark next to each ID3 field. That is applicable for any software that uses a second internal database. In order to avoid confusion, it is better to check-marks in the ID3 fields you want to have active for change (view link bellow).  If it's not check-marked, the tag won't update and the problem won't happen. This fix is there for "Key" in Rekordbox because you can select it on/off, that's why that tag is NOT problematic.  If you look at the prior list I made, it doesn't do it on that field.  All they need to do is add a patch with a global check-mark for each list under options and preferences like the "Key" option and then also add the check-marks for every field when editing the song's tag in Rekordbox like the link bellow and issue will be resolved. But they are so thick-headed, they can't even do that.
Example: http://11234-presscdn-0-32.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/screen3.jpg

Alexis 0 votes
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@Sam, you "artist" tag issue is happening because Rekordbox changes the tag either in version 1 or 2 but then Rekordbox loads the tags (reload tag) from a different version that it saves to.  And this version that it saves to, is not compatible properly with other programs, meaning that other programs will read it, but not save to it. I believe that in an older version of ID3 tags erasing them is a problem (like my example) or making them too long is also a problem. So the tags stay there and other programs don't update them.  That's why they need the check mark like I mentioned above. So that it only updates tags that you actually have something in and then they need to fix the issue where it's not writing to the proper version (it's two problems in one). It's a clusterfu^k!

Alexis 0 votes
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@Alexis I follow you is there any software where you can see each version of the ID3 tag associated with a file?

Yeah i'm glad I gave Rekordbox a demo before spending out on a top end controller because I am having serious doubts.

Sam 0 votes
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Below, i changed the artist in Rekordbox from 'Big Sean' to 'Bi' and this is what is happening... (also can see why iTunes re-imported the track number when i cleared 'artist' in Rekordbox)

Sam 0 votes
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@Sam "tag&rename" - does ID3v1, ID3v2.2, ID3v2.3 and ID3v2.4 tags.

But you could do a search, i'm sure there's more.  That's the one I use.

Alexis 0 votes
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Rekordbox must convert the both iTunes track and album ratings (managed on the iTunes database) to a Popularimeter tag... as adding one on the program above then dragging it into Rekordbox displays a rating (strangely though after adding the Popularimeter and importing it to iTunes it does not read it as a rating)

Sam 0 votes
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I'm wondering if they did it like this because some Pioneer CJDs maybe only read v.1 of ID3 tags. If that's the case, then it could be a clusterfu*k of incompatibility with other software. But there's gotta be a way they can write to both old and new ID3 tags and still primarily retrieve ID3 from the highest version first in Rekordbox. Someone at Rekordbox needs to design this properly.  It requires someone to sit down, think of all the possibilities and just FU*KING DO IT LIKE OTHER SOFTWARE DOES. PERIOD.

Alexis 0 votes
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Amen

i tried the exact same thing in iTunes and it only edits the v2 tag as well

Sam 0 votes
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@Alexis ... found something that actually works :) 

(try it on one track to make sure that you get same result before going all out)

Select track in iTunes then go File > Convert > Convert ID3 Tags then choose v2.4 and it completely removes v1.1 tags meaning you can make it blank in rekordbox and it stays

 

Let me know if you get the same result.

Sam 0 votes
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Actually you have to convert to none first before v2.4... and you lose some of the more previous in depth 2.4 tags... so there must be a way to ditch the v1.1 information but keep the original 2.4 tags intact

 

Sam 0 votes
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They won't get rid of v1.1 because some of their hardware CJDs use that.  And it doesn't hurt to have v1.1.  

Instead, what is bad programming, is when you erase a tag and it doesn't erase.... v1.1 is finicky like that unless you use the check-mark approach I mentioned earlier. 

Also, nothing prevents the design team from really erasing something when you're meant to do it, regardless of tag versions. They just need to get creative. Bunch of mindless robots relying on the public to point out something that they haven't done for 4 years

Alexis 0 votes
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I am in the middle of switching from Serato to Rekordbox but the comments I am reading about ID3 tagging (or lack of!) means I think i will have to apply the brakes on this transition! 

I see workflow has been mentioned within this thread but this is entirely irrelevant. RekordBox needs to be writing to ID3 tags for all of the common fields used by DJs to populate information about tracks not us having to find an arse about face of making it work!!! 

Pulse publish the phone number of the organ grinder at Pioneer and I will call them myself. 

In today's business world you HAVE to give the customer what they demand. We are not even demanding anything that is new! EVERY other major manufacturer of DVS has this functionality. 

 

Colesy 0 votes
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@pulse would you be able to provide a list of what pioneer hardware needs ID3v1.1 please

Sam 0 votes
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I opened up Rekordbox today for $hits & giggles and I saw an update. And to my expectation, nothing was fixed.

I did mention before in this post some months ago, that if it is not fixed by the next patch, I will engage the highest person I can in the company and now I will have to. Because this has gone too far.

The tagging function has been there since the inception of Rekordbox (2011). This functionality is the bread-n-butter of your software and it's impossible for it to take 5 years to fix unless there is a broken communication/motivation with the employees. Therefore, when your higher-ups in the company see that this communication problem and lack of motivation lead to such a big money loss, some things will finally change.  Let's face it, no owner of any company wants their lower employees to behave like this and halt their sales potentials due to a lack of motivation to fix a bug.  And I did say: 5 years! 5 years IS a proven fact for a lack of motivation/communication between employees! It's impossible for a bug-fix to take that long. This issue has simply not been reported or the developers don't care.  It can either be one or the other. The way I see it,  this justified blame will fall between the moderator of this post and the developers. So...

If I owned Pioneer, I would be furious of this situation. Put yourself in the shoes of the owner, to whom you've done a half-done job and still took his money. Because of this half-done job, he is now loosing on sales.  This is the real perspective!

@Pulse....  I would suggest you cover your butt. Make sure you pass-on the message to cover your butt and make sure you can prove it. The next step I will take will not be nice to some employees, but it needs to be done.

Alexis 0 votes
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There are plenty of music systems out there that use open database formats.  And I find it a little ironic that a company named "Pioneer" seems to be basing their software implementations on other companies ideals.

Larry Williamson -1 votes
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