Have a feature request or suggestion? Post your idea here!

Post

7 followers Follow
0
Avatar

Toraiz teething problems / Sync + Sampling

I have been playing a lot with the Toraiz SP16 quite a bit these past few days, having read, re-read the manuals and firmware update but there seems to be a few things I can't get working:

Sync, the SP16 will not go in to 'Auto' mode, I have to manually select which player to sync to, the button turns white when selected

The auto mode is greyed out and no matter how I try it never allows to be selected.

 

I have : 2x XDJ1000's + DJM750, both XDJs are connected to the Toraiz with firmware 1.1 via switched router.

XDJ's have always worked fine. 

 

Sampling:

I have the analogue REC out of the DJM750 connected to the input jacks of the Toraiz.

When I try to record a Bar of audio (or multiple bars) from the sync'd XDJ1000, I press the RECORD on the Toraiz touch screen, and it records the set amount, audio quality is OK etc, all works except...

The Bar is ALWAYS about an 8th out as there seems to be a lag. The loop is perfect, just out of sync, this means it can't be played back without it clashing.

No matter how much I try it will not record an accurate bar(s). e.g. the start of beat 1. It's more like beat 1 and 1/8th 

 

That aside;

What I have found is that, if I load up my own edited samples/drum kits/stabs/hits/synths, create some patterns/scenes, and sync it... then when playing live, creatively utilise the 'mute' and use the pads, its pretty awesome!

Im not a big fan of 'sync' features etc on players when mixing, but with the SP16 Its needed when layering it over two live players and using performance/loop/slip etc so slightly annoying i can't get it to 'auto sync' select. 

 

 

Alan Michael

Please sign in to leave a comment.

19 comments

0
Avatar

UPDATE : Auto Sync

When using RekordBox Software as audio source : If the XDJ's are disconnected from network Toraiz Allows 'Auto' to be selected. As soon as you connect an XDJ1000 to the network, the Auto function is disabled and the player number appears in white. Auto then becomes greyed out.

This is what I had done :

Powered everything off.

Opened Rekordbox on Mac

Powered on the Toraiz

After it booted up, 'Auto' could be selected on the Toraiz

Powered on XDJ's

Seconds later, 'Auto' became de-selected on its own, Players 1 & 2 buttons became white and could be selected. Auto could not be selected.

 

When using Rekordbox exported tracks on a USB, only the player numbers appears in white. You cannot select 'auto' at any point even with the XDJ's powered off.

 

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Hi Alan

according to the manual addendum for the 1.1 firmware, Auto Sync currently only works on the CDJ2000 NXS2 and TOUR1. I think the other players need an update to get the Toraiz to auto sync to the master player....

Phil 0 votes
0
Avatar

Ahh. thanks for the quick reply.

Any idea about the sampling being out of sync?

 

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Do i need to record the sample,edit,save and find it on the library to load it ? or can i just record on the fly and sample whatever is coming out of the cdj? i find it a hassle having to record and do all the above just for a sample,not what i expected from pioneer.

Jova 0 votes
0
Avatar

Jova,

The sampling flow is : (assuming the Toriaz is currently synchronized to the player that you want to sample from)

Tap on the LCD screen the sample corresponding to the pad.you want to assign a sample to -> Edit -> Record (it will remember your record settings/length) - > Save - > Name it (defaults to RecordingXXX) -> Save&Use -> Home button.

And now you can play it.

This probably isn't the most efficient workflow for live sampling.... even if it worked.

The major problem for me is (as my post above) it doesnt sample an exact bar (or what ever time scale you preset to record.

This means you have to set record length to a longer time scale, press REC long before you actually want to record then go in to the sample editor and edit the start and finish times of the sample (which you can do via dragging on the touch screen).

I bought it because I wanted to sample live from a current track, run some loops in the background while mixing... as it turns out I have given up on that idea for now. But like I say, I have found it awesome as a drum-machine/ sequencer / sample pad player (from previously edited samples).

Even though this is the very first of its type from pioneer and some of it has been thought out exceptionally well.....  but selling it as a 'sampler' there has been a bit of an oversight in its functionality. a firmware update is definitely needed to address:

1/ sample accurate bars of music

2/ read from the network which is a master player of the XDJ's.(or any other player)

3/ have a 'sample & play' (without so many steps in the workflow) feature

I think when the kinks have been ironed out it will not disappoint!

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Alan,Thanks for the info i actually bought this for the exact same reasons you did,sample at the touch of a button somewhat like the CDJ2000 NXS2 cues,but now i see it was not what i expected,can you tell me anything about the usb stick on how to load samples onto the stick and load them on the toraiz i formatted stick to fat32 and it put a few samples in it the plugged the stick on the toraiz but it does not work,stick is a 4gb kingston, i did get to load some samples via the computer using the usb cable but most samples say unsupported and i do not understand why,they are wav files some at 24bit some at 16bit all less than 32 seconds i had some mp3s and converted them with switch audio converter to wav format and still says unsupported,any ideas?

Jova 0 votes
0
Avatar

Hi Jova, ahhh I thought you were thinking about buying one! Soz.

I downloaded all the built-in samples/projects to my iMac via USB in HDD mode to free up some space, nothing on there really interested me apart from a couple of stabs, I didn't want to just delete them..... just in case it ends up on eBay ;)

All the samples where at 44.1Khz sample rate at 16 bit depth. I thought Id check because the manual is a bit lacking in detail for format compatability!

After clearing it all out; I converted some of my studio samples using Adobe Audition (Good ol' Cool Edit Pro) and put them on a generic 8Gb USB stick in a folder called TORAIZ (I think thats the only top level folder it will read).

They all worked fine except a couple which I must have forgot to convert from 48/96KHz 24/32 bit sample rate.

I didn't even bother with mp3 or experimented with any other format, I just went for 'its the format it came in' theory.

I loaded my samples by plugging in my 8Gb USB disk, created a new project on Toraiz, then on the selected pad, clicked 'BROWSE' the top level folder view is the internal drive and the external 8Gb USB stick's TORAIZ folder, then selected the relevant sample.

The project is saved to the internal drive by default. You have the choice :

Save the project and it will transfer used samples from the USB stick to the internal drive.

OR

Save AS, select USB drive and it will save the project and Samples there (if they didn't already exist) so you can plug it in to another TORAIZ.... well i think thats the idea.

I guess they went for the TORAIZ folder on the USB stick so you can use the same stick with RekordBox files etc without it having a meltdown of pop-ups saying incompatible format!

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Awesome,that was my mistake,i had to use 44.1 khz,i did covert them again with switch and set it to 44.1 khz uncompressed and loaded them on to the toraiz and now it does not say unsupported format,Thanks Alan you are great help.

Jova 0 votes
0
Avatar

the sync don't work on all device "pro dj link".... -.-

on the page of Toraiz, the related products si CDJ2000NXS2 - XDJ1000MK2 - XDJ1000

i've 2 XDJ (updated to last version 1.05) and I've try some times, some configuration, some type of connection, through DJM 2000 or through lan switch, directly to one XDJ1000... but never see receipt sync time... (obviously Pro DJ Link selected in the setting)

I hope that solve this problem as soon as possible... otherwise are only 1600€ thrown away... with midi clock I can use machine micro that cost a quarter but i've to use a system with midi clock source... & midi clock of pioneer products are not been treated much...

we can only hope in update... at the moment we have only to nudge the tempo.....

Cris Tommasi 0 votes
0
Avatar

not sure what's going wrong for you Cris but i can sync mine to my 2000 NXS2 via a netgear switch no problem. it defiantly works and the sync is super tight.

Phil 0 votes
0
Avatar

Cris. I have just updated my firmware on the XDJ1000's MK1 to v1.05 and all works fine.. except the 'auto sync'.... but thats never worked.

I have XDJs/Toraiz Linked via netgear switch, playing files from USB on player 1.

Even though you have Pro DJ Link selected, have you tried any of the 3 options below it on the SYNC SETTINGS :

BPM, all this will do is sync the Tempo to the master player. it will not sync to the beat, so if you hit play on a half beat your loop will remain half a beat out.

BEAT, it will sync to the nearest beat on the master player (according to the players beat grid).

BAR, it will slow down/speed the tempo up until it matches the bar of the beat grid playing on the selected player

 

Sometimes the Toraiz seems to just get a totally board of listening out for the sync signal, i have to go to settings while something is playing, select BPM from SYNC SETTINGS and then select BEAT again and then the BPM indicator jumps to match and it pays attention for another half hour, hour or so

If that doesn't work, are the grids on your tracks accurate?

 

 

 

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Hi Alan,

Sorry to add to the thread, but i am wondering if now you actually do have the Toraiz working as a looper?..

I dont have XDJ's so would be syncing via midi from an external source, and one aspect i most certainly need is the ability to capture a 1,2,4 bar sample and have it instantly loop..

 

is this possible?

 

thanks, Ian

Mystic38 0 votes
0
Avatar

Hi Mystic,

I really couldn't say if it would or would not sample an exact bar or not, I don't have the spare cables to test it..... and I'm reluctant to upset an otherwise happy MIDI equilibrium in the studio part of my set-up.

Technically, I can't see why it wouldn't if it is synced to an external MIDI clock it certainly has the ability to, but saying that, theres no reason why it shouldn't sample an accurate bar from a player of the same family... but it won't! Could be a bit of an expensive lucky-dip in that respect.

What I can tell you is that if you want to RECORD and then hit a PAD to play it back instantly you will be sorely disappointed. It desperately needs a firmware update to make it DJ/Live friendly.... and not to bang on... the XDJ/accurate bar sampling issue.

The workflow to record to playing back is on par or possibly in excess of a studio/production based sampler (I have NI Studio which ironically has less button pressing involved between sampling and playback)

To minimum amount of steps to sample on-the-fly and playback on the Toraiz is :

Select 1 of the 16 Samples/16 Scenes on the LCD you want to Sample to

Click 'SAMPLING/EDITING'

Click 'RECORD' (Click again to stop if you have not set a timeframe)

Click 'SAVE CHANGES'

This opens a pop-up which prompts you to enter a file name for the recorded sample (It will not let you over record an existing sample, this is a real pain having to add a new filename via the onscreen keyboard every single time)

Click 'SAVE&REPLACE' (the button could do with a couple of spaces)

Click 'HOME'

Only now can you actually hit the corresponding pad to play your sample.

 

You can if your heart desires, add a whole lot of other steps in the above workflow, but this is the absolute minimum.

Also, the RECORD button is a 'soft button' on the LCD screen, there is no physical RECORD button, not great.

Im using mine as a glorified drum-machine until when/if the firmware is updated

 

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Im having the same issues with sync on my 2000NXS.  Its hooked up with the Pro DJ-Link same was as my 2 decks and DJM900. It only works for the NXS2? 

Josh Churchill 0 votes
0
Avatar

Today I installed firmware 1.1.0 on my XDJs and updated the latest firmware on the Toraiz:

The auto selection works, it keeps it in sync... at last!

The live sampling is pending a later firmware update and the tweeks in November 2016's firmware are a significant improvement... but still not quite there yet.

Theres still a lag on the REC after hitting the soft key (really needs a hardware button, perhaps utilising an existing REC button for the sequence recorder?)

The 'offset' is a nice touch and helps mitigate the REC lag a little bit.

It would be nice if you could force it to switch scenes on the fly instead of waiting for the sequence to end (DJ sampling/playback may not require everything looping in a 16 beat pattern)

For instance, Live, i use the scenes as a sample bank, looping a kick and percussion etc and un-muting/playing the others when needed. the kick & several percussion loops are a constant throughout most scenes, but different synths/voc/stabs are stored in various other scenes.

Recording, we really should be able to 'over-write' existing files.

anyway, I'm much happier now the sync works!

 

Alan Michael 0 votes
0
Avatar

Hey Guys, Are any of you having problems with the Pro Link with 2000NXS2's.  My toraiz is completely unresponsive to Pro Link.  When I activate it, Toraiz defaults to 120BPM, The Auto Sync and Player 1 and 2 boxes light up but don't do anything.  I've got my NXS2's and 900NXS2 all linked up via a netgear switch.  I've tried it with Rekordbox as well and USB drives; nothing... All Firmware is updated on all units.  Pioneer says I have a faulty unit.  Sweetwater replaced it, same problem.  I tried a friends Toraiz as well; same problem.  Am I missing something? 

dylan Regan 0 votes
0
Avatar

No problems here, it works really well. I've got a similar setup to you but with a different mixer.

It sounds like you haven't set the sync source setting to 'ProDJLINK' in the utility setting. I think the default setting is 'Internal' which is why you're seeing the 120BPM (which is the default new project BPM setting). 

Press the cog icon on the top right of the screen and scroll down the settings until you see 'machine' settings. I think the sync settings are the first one in this list. You can also set here how the ProDJSYNC settings sync to your CDJs, latch to BPM, Beat or Bar. Try the Bar setting first....

Hope this helps

Phil 0 votes
0
Avatar

Thanks for the reply, but yes I've run through and selected ProDJLINK in utility and done all of this.  Just doesn't work..

 

dylan Regan 0 votes