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Toraiz: Small Electrical Current Through Case - Solved

EDITED & UPDATED

This happens with every unit and is part of the design. Although a little disconcerting, Pioneer say it is normal.

Here is the original thread.

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The metal case of my Toraiz is holding some sort of electrical charge. I can feel a small electrically charged buzzing sensation under my finger tips when I run a hand around the metal case. It is hard to explain and ranges in strength.

This only happens when using the unit stand-alone and not plugged into any other piece of equipment via any of the inputs or outputs.

This happens when the unit has the power chord connected, regardless if the unit is powered on or switched off.

The electrical current in the metal case stops if you connect the Toraiz up to another piece of equipment.

I tested my unit in various different locations, home, friends, work etc. and it happens in every location.

Other users have now reported the same thing, both below and on other forums.

I have taken my unit back to the dealer who has thoroughly tested it on different power circuits and using different power adaptors. They confirmed the same thing - some sort of electrical current leaking to the metal case.

They also tested the demo model they had in store and it replicated the same thing.

We think (but can't confirm) that there is some sort of current leakage happening internally which is being transferred and held in the metal case. We think this may be staying in the case because the Toraiz is an unearthed unit - using a 2 pin (figure of 8) 9V 3A DC power adaptor. We think that connecting the Toraiz to another piece of equipment earths the unit and dissipates the electrical charge.

My dealer kept my unit to return to Pioneer for testing and has notified Pioneer. At that point mine was the first reported problem and Pioneer were unaware of the issue.

Since then, other users on here and other forums have reported the same thing and have either returned their units or contacted their dealer to report the issue.

To be clear - I'm not an electrical engineer and this issue may be perfectly normal and also perfectly safe. I have no idea. But I would have thought that Pioneer would be aware of this if that were the case. Again, I don't know and when you're dealing with strange electrical charges, it is better to be safe than sorry.

Pioneer are aware of this thread and it would be really useful if all users could quickly test their units, stand-alone, and add their findings.

Again, the sensation is hard to explain, but feels like a small electrically charged buzzing under your finger tips when you run them over the surface of the metal case.

Thanks.

 

henryo

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Hello guys,

I would recommend taking it back to the dealer if you feel you are having electrical problems. I can also open a ticket for your issue so that our production team would further assist you on trying to resolve this issue. 

Let me know what you prefer to do.

thanks

D.j. Creme
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24 comments

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I have the same issue, exactly. It's not too much to use but definitely not good. I'd love a response from Pioneer on this. 

Andrew Hadjiantoni 0 votes
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i think you should take it back to your dealer.

TCO TCO (Cosmic Order) 0 votes
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Thanks DJ Creme - I'd obviously prefer to keep hold of it - but you're probably right to recommend I send it back to dealer - I guess it's not worth risking it with electrics.

Maybe open a ticket too and see if tech support can find anything on this when running on a 240v power supply?

Thanks.

henryo 0 votes
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I took the Toraiz back to the dealer today. They could all feel it too. We tested out their demo unit and it had the same buzzing thing too. So we spent about an hour testing them both with different power supplies and in different sockets with it still happening, but after a while we also plugged the main outs into something else and it completely stopped. It's happening because the unit is not earthed and has a metal case. The buzzing completely goes as soon as it plugged into something else that is earthed and acts as earth for it. They held onto the unit for now and are waiting to hear back from Pioneer.

henryo 0 votes
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Heard back from the dealer this morning and looks like Pioneer are taking this seriously. If you have the same issue (which only seems to occur when using the unit completely stand alone) then I'd recommend contacting your dealer.

henryo 0 votes
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To the moderators, I have this issue but I bought the unit in a private sale from an individual who won the unit in a competition. Hence I don't have a dealer that sold me the unit. I'm based in the UK. What are my options please?

Andrew Hadjiantoni 0 votes
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Thanks Henryo for looking into this. I will test my unit without any connections that may have been earthing it when I tested for this last.

Simon Fine 0 votes
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Henryo, my unit has the same issue. It's fine when there are audio connections attached, but if I play it standalone, then I feel the static.

 

I will contact my dealer after the weekend and see what he suggests.

 

Any indication of how long your dealer will hold onto your Toraiz?

 

I wonder if a new power supply will solve this (I know you tested other ones, but maybe they can address the issue with a new one, or is it going to be a Samsung Note 7 party recall :)

Simon Fine 0 votes
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Thanks Simon,

I don't think a simple power adapter swap will do the trick, as it's a 9V 3A DC power supply running from a figure of 8 lead. That means it has no Earth at all in the power supply and I'm guessing the power socket in the back of the SP-16 is the same spec to match. I think it needs to be a 3 pin kettle plug or similar to carry earth (I don't know if someone else knows?).

It may well turn out that it's perfectly safe and normal, in which case we'll need to decide if the issue a deal breaker or not.

My dealer has copied me in on emails with Pioneer, and has asked me to pass them details of other users with the same issue, as this is the first report Pioneer have had and so they think it's an isolated issue. If you're happy to do so, PM me on Elektronauts with some contact details and where you bought it and I'll pass your details over.

Thanks, Henry

henryo 0 votes
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I called into my Pioneer dealer today and his rep is visiting him tomorrow. I have emailed my dealer about this issue, so let's see what Pioneer's reponse is to this issue. 

 

There's got to be heath & safety regulation concerns here right?

Simon Fine 0 votes
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Thanks Simon, I've updated my original post here and added to the GS one. Let me know how it goes at your end.

Re: H&S, they must have gone through all the right channels and tested this machine to death in terms of H&S before releasing it - which leads me to think it's either a genuine fault that slipped through either at design or production, or it's just really bad (but safe) design.

henryo 0 votes
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I'm away for a few days but will chase my dealer up on Monday if I haven't heard back from him.

 

I fear that if there aren't enough users complaining about it that Pioneer will ignore the issue.

 

I would guess that there are a lot of units with this issue, but many users haven't tested their own Toraiz!

Simon Fine 0 votes
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Just tested mine and the "buzz" is noticeably there when operated without any cables (other than power) plugged into it.

Jessdub99 0 votes
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Thanks Jess. Please report this to your Pioneer dealer, or wherever you bought it.

 

Draw their attention to this post and to the one in Gearslutz (from around page 47 onwards) - https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-electronic-music-production/1077482-dave-smith-pioneer-dj-collaboration-toraiz-sp-16-a.html

 

If enough users add their voice we will be heard!

 

Thanks.

Simon Fine 0 votes
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Thanks Jess, where do you live and have you reported it to the dealer you bought the unit from?

henryo 0 votes
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I'm in the US and I haven't contacted the dealer yet. Just found out about it this morning.

Jessdub99 0 votes
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Ok so we have users with this same issue in the U.K., Ireland, Holland and now in the USA too.

What's going on Pioneer?

Are our units just a 'Friday afternoon' bad batch, or is this going to turn out to be on every unit if people test them?

DJ Creme? Tech support? What's actually causing this and is there a solution?

henryo 0 votes
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Received this today via the dealer - from Rob Anderson - Product Specialist UK & Ireland

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The product planning team have checked the unit. It's not individual failed unit. The electric vibration is same as other products. i.e. DDJ-WeGO4. It's the specification. If connected to external equipment (apart from the headphones) the TORAIZ is grounded to earth and the electrical effect on the chassis is removed.  It is only when headphones are used and they are not mains driven (240V) and TORAIZ is not grounded and the electrical effect remains on the chassis.  The TORAIZ has an outboard DC supply which has to comply to Class II standard and can't be modified.  

This also depends on the customer's environment where and how the product is used, as the effect he is feeling is the TORAIZ being grounded through his touch down to ground.  If he is standing on carpet then the effect can be worse then standing on concrete.

We may make improvement for this issue on future products. 

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I have responded via the dealer:

To be honest I think to have a metal cased electrical item which is ungrounded and either relying on other equipment or using the user as ground is insane.
 
I also think there is some sort of design fault at play here. Other metal cased machines that are not grounded do not have this issue - thinking of Elektron gear specifically here as that's what I have experience with - but there are many.
 
 
Please can you confirm the following the to help me decide if I want to keep the machine or not:
 
1. What happens if there is a power surge or serious electrical malfunction of the Toraiz when I am being used as the ground?
 
2. If the unit is left on and not touched for a while, does the charge build up and up until I ground any current leakage?
 
3. Is it at all possible for the unit to give the me a serious shock - under any circumstances?
 
henryo 0 votes
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I was not expecting that response at all. Does anyone know of any other gear that uses you as an earth and you can feel it doing so? Sounds fishy to me.

Good questions Henry.

I will email my dealer with this response and your questions.

I am naturally now also considering returning the Toariaz for a refund.

Simon Fine 0 votes
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I know Simon, I think it's a bit nuts.

I managed to get hold of an electrical engineer I know last night and he said that with a 9V PSU, nothing inside the unit will ever exceed 9V and so is completely safe.He said that it isn't uncommon for metal cased units not to be earthed.

He said that the buzzing we feel is from DC leakage to the metal case and that it isn't ideal, but not a problem.

Finally, he said that in the event of a malfunction of the PSU, or a power surge, that the PSU will have a protective shunt diode or resistor/regulator that will cut any current, so again is safe.

An engineer in GS also says it will be safe.

I'll wait back to get an official answer from Pioneer about my questions.

henryo 0 votes
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same here in New Zealand! must be ALL units? 

that being said, i don't know if i will use it unconnected to other things... 

 

Belleville 0 votes
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