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Pioneer DJM-V10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNYTE1n4OvU

What would have been even better than the Comp control would have been a Dyn control with 12 o'clock off, compressor on one side, and expander on the other. Lots of Utility settings tweaks you could also allow the adjustment on for those possible, too... ratios, levels, thresholds, etc.

They probably used the plastic touch screen so it could be pressure sensitive instead of capacitive, which is less prone to interference and accidental presses. Quite a smart idea with making part of the control over the master effects a touch screen like that, IMO, as it allows changes later.

Definitely going after A&H and Playdifferently with that, especially the Xone 96 and DB4. Maybe also the Formula Sound FF6.2 and Rane MP2015. I assume the Rotarykits.com crew will be out with a mod. It’s lacking simultaneous high and low pass filters, full effects sections per channel, and full matrix inputs of the DB4. For that matter, it's missing even individual LP/HP selection for each channel. The Playdifferently, FF6.2, and MP2015 also have the ability to double up on both high and low pass on the same channel. Pioneer probably would have been better off replacing the treble with a dedicated LP and the low tone knob with a dedicated HP and lose their shared knob. That said, it looks like they went with normal EQs and not fixed or optional isolators on the channels, which is a good idea in and of itself even compared to the MP2015’s current use of only reduced-group-delay quasi-FIR 2nd-order isos on the channels without any bypass or optional EQ mode possible considering it's already got a master IIR 4th-order master iso.

Pioneer may have changed the ADC architecture, as it appears to be the first major Pioneer digital DJM to have fixed-gain analog inputs with the lack of the DJM900NXS2 and Tour "clip" channel LED indicators for the true analog trimming. Not really necessary to have done it this way, but everyone else does digital DJ mixers this fixed way. I’m curious about the DSP and audio processing code library they went with, because the particular TI one they've been using since the DJM-800/1000 on has used very similar coding even with each new model, including the newest with double float, with kind of a bloated low-end, among other things. Their master out section is still kind of wanky, though, with boost over unity, a different metering scale, and an extra red. As a definite first for Pioneer, they did finally mark the unity with a specific zero on the master knob, but I doubt they’re giving a -10dB option in the Utility settings like Denon gives you. Really no reason for it to have boost over unity on the master.

6 SPDIF inputs is a first and welcome. The AES/EBU master digital out from the Tour is also welcome.

Not quite sure how you persuade the Xone analog, Playdifferently, or Formula Sound crowd to come over to digital. Certainly X1700, DB4, MP2015, and even the PPD9000 (that had channel compressors, by the way) proved you can get digital sound that meets or exceeds even the best analog DJ mixers, so perhaps this is just a matter of getting audiophile DJs to listen to the V10 or the other top digital boards.

And may I just finally point out those meters? I guess meant to help people with color blindness. Lots of indications of Pioneer trying to play catch up with other brands on the V10.

Nonetheless, this is a very exciting mixer.

Reticuli

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Being "THE" flagship mixer.. kind of suprised it doesn't have a magvel pro crossfader. The regular magvel on the nxs2 feels flimsy and has this unwanted wiggle. Think bicycle with a wobbly back tire. Not to mention the not so user friendly tension adjust that requires the constant removal of the faceplaet and p-lock channel caps everytime an adjustment is needed. 

I know it's DJ mixer's, but it's 2020 and all the brands should start considering fully parametric Hi-mid's and lo-mid's. Not just exotic ones like these but ALL pro range mixers.

GV 0 votes
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I have no opinion on the CF.  I usually don't use them much.

Parametric mid EQ was one of the only things I liked about the Tascam X-9, besides its customization, bass quality, and sampling.  I presume I'd like the Playdifferently one, too.

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On further examination, I have to conclude the unidirectional filter knobs and shared filter selection buttons were a complete mistake on the V10.  The prior DJM combo HP/LP filter knob with 12 o'clock bypass would have been acceptable, and the previously-stated other options even more so.  It's as if they were going for some kind of mimicking of form instead of providing function.  If it's truly function they're after, then this is trying to be a simple wet/dry knob for a general/multipurpose effects section, which they're not.  These are dedicated filter knobs, and this universally is done with a frequency knob, not wet/dry.  If you use wet/dry, you ought to add more effects to the channels.  If you stay with only filters, you need a frequency knob and ability to choose filter type individually for each channel... lots of different ways to do that with switches, buttons, push-in knobs that toggle back and forth between HP, off, and LP, etc.

Reticuli 0 votes
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Until you've used the mixer, I'd recommend holding off on the "this would have been better" or "you should have done..." comments.

That said, let's answer some comments and questions, because I had substantial hands-on time with this fantastic mixer last week!

"...compressor on one side, and expander on the other. Lots of Utility settings tweaks you could also allow the adjustment on for those possible, too... ratios, levels, thresholds, etc."

No. That's what outboard gear is for. This is still a DJ mixer. The point of the compressor on the V10 is to assist with older songs whose recordings are not up to par sonically when mixed with modern "brick" mastering. The algorithm used for processing the compression is such that it really can't be abused; if there is already a lack of dynamic range, it doesn't just pump the whole track up.

"They probably used the plastic touch screen..."

If it were glass, it would be more expensive and more prone to breaking. This is simple and it works well. It also feels fantastic.

"...it's missing even individual LP/HP selection for each channel."

Ah, but there are ways around that - including routing the channel to the effects bus on another channel, and/or using the effects or master isolator. In essence, I don't feel it needs both.

"Pioneer probably would have been better off replacing the treble with a dedicated LP and the low tone knob with a dedicated HP and lose their shared knob."

I'll disagree - this works well and the 4-band EQ is awesome.

"looks like they went with normal EQs and not fixed or optional isolators on the channels"

The high and low are isolation, the two mids are -26dB. The master has 3-band iso.

"I doubt they’re giving a -10dB option in the Utility settings"

There's plenty of options in the settings... nothing online for me to post tho.

"Not quite sure how you persuade the Xone analog, Playdifferently, or Formula Sound crowd to come over to digital. "

Easy. Have them listen to this mixer. Before it was released, our production team toured it to major clubs and festival system managers across the US and Europe, and many of them were blown away by the quality of this mixer, even if they were skeptical.

"Pioneer trying to play catch up with other brands on the V10."

Not at all, we don't try to imitate.

"Being "THE" flagship mixer..."

Correction - this is not the "flagship" mixer; that is still our DJM-900NXS2. This is a totally separate mixer, not intended to take the crown away from our industry-favourite flagship.

"kind of suprised it doesn't have a magvel pro crossfader."

The DJs who will likely be using this aren't ones who are wanting to scratch much. Even still, the crossfader is solid.

"the unidirectional filter knobs and shared filter selection buttons were a complete mistake on the V10.  The prior DJM combo HP/LP filter knob with 12 o'clock bypass would have been acceptable"

Again, I'll disagree. One of the reasons they went with a dedicated knob was many DJs complained that they overshot the 12 o'clock position and ended up having a slight filter applied. Not only does this completely avoid that (you know you're at the end because the knob stops turning!), but you get more accurate control; the full range of the knob is 100% of the value.

As I started with ... please don't sit and comment on this mixer with speculation. Go and give it a try and a listen. It deserves it. Our engineers worked hard to make this one of the best mixers I've ever laid hands on - and I took off my Pioneer DJ hat to say that.

Pulse 1 vote
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Thanks for responding.

I was defending the use of a plastic pressure touch screen, and I presume you're not meaning to say it's capacitive dual touch, which is what I was saying was unneeded and has its drawbacks.

As for isolators vs normal EQs, I meant crossover-style filters that are summed, not whether or not they were full kill on the bands. I realize that normal EQs, whether they be notch or shelf-style for each band, can be made to do canned full kill mutes of that band when all the way to the left. EQs, whether notch, shelf, and regardless of full kill or not, introduce increasing group delay as you move from the 12 o'clock, with none when they're centered. True isos, however, always introduce the same amount of phase distortion regardless of the band volume settings unless there's some kind of bypass on them (a button or a canned sudden bypass at 12 o’clock), as a true isolator is nothing more than a bunch of bands from the audio passing through fixed-magnitude crossover-style filters that are usually then electrically summed, with the knobs controlling the volume of the bands and not the magnitude of the EQ effect. Interestingly, the first isos were actually just reggae sound systems’ active crossovers in the hands of the DJ and were not even electrically summed, rather just the real acoustic mixing going on as the speakers did their thing. I kind of wish we’d all move back to that on mixers with built-in active crossovers and individual outputs on the back, but I digress :-)  Anyway, I think if you don't have selectable iso & EQ that can be flipped between or iso bypassed, then not going the true iso route was the better choice... which I still presume is the case on the V10.

On the filters, I don't really need to have used the unit to know no other DJ mixer I've ever encountered has used channel low-pass filters with a left-to-right dry-wet rotation. They all do it using frequency with the opposite directionality.

I think you guys would be better off moving HP to the Send section below and something like Bit Crusher or something else on the (now unused) second button for the upper knob instead, with that upper knob's wet-dry reversed so it's dry on the right. That's normal for a LP and also bit crushing to the left & downward-like sort of makes sense, I guess. I'm not sure what other effects might naturally work with a right-to-left rotation, too. Anyway, this would allow both filters to be doubled up on without any complicated routing necessary or the use of the master effects to do it.

Can the LFO at least be turned off on the master filter?

Edit:

Another question for you...  Why is there still a "Clip" LED on the master out when it's self-explanatory that the top red should be clipping and yet there's no "Clip" LED on the channels anymore for analog inputs?  Are the gain/trims now purely digital domain even with analog inputs?

Reticuli 0 votes
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