[CLOSED] Issue I hear with DJM-900 echo effect (video attached)

Great demonstration. This is exactly what I have issues with. You can obviously hear that the second and third attempt sound so muddy and crappy compared to the first "trick" (dim 800 style). Why did Pioneer change this? Part of my style of mixing is using the echo post fader and I just can't do it on the 900. The 800 echo was way more intuitive to use you could almost slap the fx button on and off and it would sound fine. Just seems weird to me they changed it as I've never heard anyone complain about the 800 echo and now there are at least three of us here on the forums with strikingly similar issues with the 900's echo. 

BTW, I was able to re-create your trick by flicking the fx select knob and it works like a charm. I guess I'll resort to doing this for the time being. Hopefully enough of us will come forward so that Pioneer might take our complaint seriously. 

the trick is ok but still sucks we have to do this to echo out a short part, especially if you want to lift the volume a little to emphasize the echo, You can't do that while trying to use the echo the "800 way", you need a 3rd hand. Please Pioneer do something about this, i really cannot believe this is what the echo was changed to

@Pulse, Gavin, Foster, or any other Pio rep,  Can any of you guys look into possible having the echo changed back maybe in a FW update? I have no luck trying to replicate certain echo effects like above  I love doing, it keeps grabbing audio too far back. and sounds like crap The worst is now I sold the 800 and the couple of dj's I used to rent my gear to hate the new echo also, I still don't get the change. I see more complaints now then there were when the 800 was released. 

Agreed. The echo simply "grabs" way too much of the track and it seems really inconsistent. To me is seems that whenever you have the fx select knob on echo, the effect is being applied to the track underneath regardless if the fx is turned on. So when the fx is finally turned on, you hear everything as if the effect has been on the whole time and not switched on instantly like on the 800. That's why BriChi's trick works, because the fx knob is only switched to echo the moment the fx button is pushed. Maybe we're in the minority but having it work this way makes no sense.

Try this - loop a simple acapella and try to grab a specific word for 1 beat with echo and slam the fader down. Unless you are doing the trick shown in the video, no matter what timing you will hear that you never get the exact word to tail off because the effect has processed everything before that word as well. Not intuitive at all. 

yup, no way you are looping an accapella and echoing a single word, I have tried that to with some of the mixes I do live and now cannot, I am really upset over this echo, And I doubt we are in the minority being that everyone I know that does Long Island and NYC clubs I talk to, All have the same reaction when trying to use the echo, they all think it is broken, when I explain to them that this was done purposely by pioneer, there reaction is, Ill keep my 800. 

@ BriChi - Maybe you can convince all the DJs you've talked to that aren't happy with the echo and get them to post on here too. I have a few friends that also don't understand why the new echo is the way it is. I doubt Pioneer will spend the time or money just for us, but if enough of us are unhappy they can't ignore the issue. It may be a minor issue but it has a huge impact on our sets.

yeah, i'll see if they want to jump on board, they are not ones to sit on forums, lol

i have also complained on the older forum about this , and i think that this echo is pretty useless , it makes your mix sound terrible ,so i don't use it anymore and i use the delay instead but it is not a real echo . DJM 2000 and DJM 800 has it , i don't understand why the 900 doesn't .

so strange that they even left it on the 2000, I don't get the inconsistency now between their mixers, the echo (and other efx) should be the same across the pro lineup now starting from the 800 since that has been the standard for most dh's and installs in clubs for the last couple of years

I def do agree with the above people, I love how the Echo works on the 800 and since I recently moved to the 900 it is very difficult to engage that effect smoothly on the fly. I like brichi answer on tricking the system but I don't think that a great solution. Im hoping someone can address this situation and maybe send the effect back to the old way like on the 800. That is a very popular effect that Djs use and that is definitely the effect that you need to work right on. Otherwise it makes you sound like an amateur when you can get it right on the beat. Please support help us.............

I spoke with the resident DJ of my city's biggest club yesterday and he said whenever pro DJs come in that are not familiar with the 900 they assume the echo is broken!

Had to sign up today to say I thought the echo was broken too for a long time as people can mess things up well in the DJ shops! hahah. It's been putting off my purchase of a 900 for a while. Just couldn't explain it so well as BriChi! Hope they can fix it or let you change it. I agree all effects should work the same across all mixers. For sure if the 800 was a set standard. This echo effect is like remaking the 1200 turntable with no RPM buttons and telling people to tap the start button 1 once for 33 and twice for 45! It worked fine before why change? Please fix this the echo Pioneer or let us be able to change it in some settings? The 900 looks like a computer in a box? If I can upgrade Windows everyday why not your mixer?

Yeah I tested my 900 as well, and it does exactly that. It echos out but I share the opinion on others on here when I say it grabs a little too much. Prime example is on the video attachment above the echo effect sounded more more precise when you change the effect knob to echo as soon as you engage the effect vs having the effect already set to echo then engaging the echo effect. I tried it myself what a difference If possible Pulse or Gavin let the techs know this if they could bring this up on a future firmware update. I think it would be a significant update as the echo effect to most djs I know is a popular effect. Thanks.

Any feedback from a Pio rep on this? Clearly people think this is "broken" and sounds bad. any way we can get some options to change this around?

Pulse, Gavin anything on a possible update regarding this echo effect?

I have a DJM900 and do not like the echo lol... i want it DJM800 Style too!!!

Same here. I have tested DJM900 Nexus in official Pioneer Store, 'cause i want to buy them. But, echo sounds pretty bad. If u can fix it soon or i'm not buyin this.

P.s. Sorry for bad english :/

DJM800 rules!

Why won't anyone from Pioneer acknowledge this issue?  At the very least let us know if we are stuck with this garbage sounding echo. Ignoring a group of unhappy costumers? You might as well tell us all to F off and never to do business with you again. We just want a response please.

Tarek, even if Pioneer acknowledge its an issue it's not like we will see a fix or change in the future soon.  Now I see the 850 is announced. Maybe that's why they not respond? Busy week?

Will the 850 have 800 style echo?

I hope the 850 does as I'm not buying anything till I can try it or know.

I think what people who have the 900 really want to know from Pioneer is.....

Can the 900 echo effects be upgraded/fixed? Or is it off limits due to firmware?

If there is no offical response on it. Well take a guess what the answer is ;)

I would say it is definitely adjustable via FW updates being that they already messed with a bunch of effects in previous FW

I'm trying to recall just how the echo worked on the 600, and if my memory serves me, it's how the 900 works.  People hated the 800's echo method when it first came out and cried foul, wanting the 600 method to be implemented.  Now you guys are all used to the 800 and want the 900 to behave like the 800!

I'll look into it and pass your comments along to the engineers.

I have never seen the 600 as a standard to the point in clubs ilke the 800, Most DJs are used to the 800 and no one I know cried about the echo, most of them went from Urei, Bozak, Rane 2016 then to the 800, all rotary, none of them used the 600 so i doubt they are complaining about the 800 echo, I can't find one post on people complaining, Sorry Pulse, But the 800 echo is the standard of the way most echoes work scroll all brands of mixers, if the 600 was such the standard echo to go by, then why not have it in the djm2000 too? Does the djm850 have the 800 echo or the 900? I don't understand how anyone could want the 900 echo the way it is, look at my video example and you can see how useless the echo has become in the 900 if you want to echo quick words, beats, accapellas, etc.... its impossible

Thanks for passing it along though, Hopefully they can do something about it, It sucks too because I dumped off my 800 cheap and now guys that rent gear from me want the 800 believe it or not due to the fact that the echo sounds like it is broken, i figured once I had the 900, the guys would love to take it, but nope... 

Thanks again Pulse, can you give us a heads up on what the engineers say and if they will fix this? There really is no "getting used to it",,, Echos I want to do are simply not possible to do right now, period, there is no easy workaround or way to "get used to it"

Thank you Pulse for the response. I assume the new dim 850 will act the same as the 900. Weird that the 2000 doesn't act the same way and only the newer ones do. Would be nice if they made up their mind on which style to use across the whole range of mixers! Used a 2000 the other day and took me a few seconds to adjust since I've become used to the 900 now lol

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I can't say that a fix will or will not be issued because there are plenty of users who ARE used to the way it works now, but my answer, as you could guess was coming, is "get used to it for now, if a fix comes out, adapt again!"

I hear ya, I just think they are not used to it, they just decided to stop using it on the 900, lol

I would think if that was the reason behind it, then they should have left it the 800 way since that's what people got used to after 4 years or so of the 800 being the club standard, now your asking everyone to adapt again and now the 2 big pioneer club mixers, the 900 and 2000 have 2 different echoes, I don't get it.

I think I could be a good example from this matter.  I used the djm 800 at many clubs and other brands as well rane ect... I only owned medium grade mixers such as vestex and a djm 700.  When I bought the djm 900 I thought it was me, when I tried to echo out after mixing hiphop which is very useful it didn't sound as good.  I had the 900 since May I and I wouldn't say I got use to it it was more of 1. Maybe the beat sync was off on the echo effect or 2. Just had to live with it.  It wasn't till BriChi attached the vid of this problem and I was like let me try this method and it worked how I've always used the echo in all previous mixers from djm 800 and from other mixers of different brands.  Really the problem is to put it simple enough is the echo effect works like it is ready to echo at any time then when you use it it grabs sounds a little before the effect was engaged.  Hence BriChi video which clearly shows this.  So the effect does not allow the user to use the efffect how many djs I know like to use it including myself. 

It could be made switchable from the config menu, so both sides would be happy :)

exactly, there is not that much in the menu so it's not like it would be too much, but in the main menu, not the club menu, that way if dj's are switching, they dont have to reboot the mixer to set a preference on the echo

^^ +1