[SOLVED] how it should have been done.

Amen. They've spent no time supporting this product after releasing it - but manage to continually come out with new controllers left and right...oh and release new colors. 

@Nick > Do you own CDJ850s? Its not explicitly clear in your post.

Do you use rekordbox with the players? Do you have Quantize enabled?

Rekordbox was brought to the market to help DJs move away from using CDs. Apart from creating playlists, you can do little else with rekordbox for CDs so whats the point? 

@Gavin, when using Quantize in rekordbox to setup loops, the loops are sometimes off when you load them in the CDJ 850.

It would be very cool from Pioneer if they will support quantize on the cdj 850 in a future firmware update.

..... and the 'sort' feature that is availiable after choosing a catagory like on other players. Also looping that you can actually use as stated before

Yeah the sort feature (pressing the menu button when you are in a playlist) would be very handy.

I do own 850s in fact, and I do use portable hard drives and rekordbox, and no where in there did I was it wasn't a great concept. Im just saying it was made completely wrong and not up to pioneers previous standers.

I also use CDs though depending on the genre im spinning, and as for pre quantizing loops in rekordbox I don't pre plan my set so there isn't a whole lot of use for pre setting loops

@Hans > Are you on 2.0.1 on rekordbox and have the players on the latest firmware? In my experience, they've been pretty tight. But I will pass along your feedback that it could be tighter.

@Nick > Sorry Nick, I'm not trying to be hostile, but I've read your post three times now and I still don't know what, exactly, you are complaining about.

you guys messed everything up on the 850s. everything is badly designed I didn't spend 800 dollars to have shit that doesn't work correctly. this unit was 100% designed wrong and thats the point of this post. and as for rekordbox, it has more bugs than a rainforest, I have had so many things go wrong, from songs that cant upload, to rekordbox loosing files forcing me to trace them back to their origin, rekordbox even corrupted my hard drive forcing me to re-upload everything. and the fact that there is no bridge to mixed in key, which is one of the most used dj programs is just plain bad business on both pioneer and mixed in keys part. Furthermore, I noticed on this new version the key can be read, but why would you do it in terms of the circle of 5ths rather than the camelot wheel which is what most djs use. Its poor decisions and a lack of attention to detail like this that is gona have a lot more djs moving to different companies because pioneer is too comfortable making shit products because their "industry standard" .

Loop feature constantly fails to produce perfect loops

Waveform displays are more than often incorrect 

Tempo/pitch slider fails to remain at set value, fluctuates

on and on and on

It's been more than a year or so and there has been no support updates

The same, cant accept spent 1700 euros for unstable auto beat loop !!!! First and last buy Pioneer cdj !

@Gavin, yeah I'm on 2.0.1 since it came out, but to be honest I still have to test the loops...

Unfortuntaly I'm not home for 2 weeks...

What quistuhpha said!

@Gavin, I'm afraid most of the complains you read here are legit.  With all the support and features for the 900s and 2000s, the 850 series certainly seems to be an afterthought.  I am glad someone finally made a thread about it.  

-Loop functions are not accurate. Even with the quantize feature enabled in Rekordbox, I cannot achieve an accurate loop like I can with the 900s or 2000s.  I have to manually adjust it each and everytime.  It's to the point now where I don't even bother looping, the risk of the beats going off sync is too great.  I have the newest updated versions on both firmware and rekordbox software, and still the issue exists.  Why has this not been corrected?  I've seen youtube videos from over a year ago showing the issue.

-The wavebar form is often wrong.  Visual breakdowns do sync up with the sound.  Sometimes, I will just get a solid rectangle that appears instead of a waveform.  Usually it is right, but I would say about 15-20% of the tracks I scan are not accurate.  I would hope that a firmware update would fix this in the future.  

-The tempo often does fluctuate.  Sometimes, the bpm display is not accurate at all.  I might have one track that I know is exactly 128.0 bpm, and the other cdj should be the same, Yet, sometimes I will still have to adjust one side to make them match.  I have learned how to deal with it during my live sets, but it should still not be an issue.  I used to think it was that way with some of the tracks I ripped from live sets, but I now see it happening to full version tracks I have bought.  This is my #1 issue.  My buddy has pair of 900s and I have tried it with the exact same 2 tracks on his players, and there are no issues.  IMO this needs to be fixed asap.

All in all, I think the 850s are incredibly useful and great players to use.  But its unfortunate that instead of Pioneer correcting the issues and supporting the players more, the main focus is on the 900s and 2000s and I have to ''adapt'' to the glitches on the 850s in order to achieve the perfect live set.  

**"The wavebar form is often wrong.  Visual breakdowns do not sync up with the sound" **is what I meat to say.  Thanks.

I may be wrong, but people keep metioning the grids in rekordbox and having quantise on. But this makes no diference as the CDJ850's do not read the grids, and therefore do not support the quantise feature (even if it does read the grids it definitely doesn't support the quantise feature).

As far as I'm aware it should read what the bpm shows in display, then sets a precise loop to the exact amount of time 8 beats (or which ever preset loop you pick) is to that specific bpm.

Unfortunately it doesn't, and therefore you can't even use the loop feature!

Close to 2 years or so after Pioneer releases the CDJ 850:

It comes out with a new color, CDJ 850-k black!

It comes out with another new color, CDJ 850-w white!

It comes out with DJM 850!

It comes out with DJM 250 and other mixers!

It comes out with DDJ-T1, DDJ-S1, DDJ-Ergo...

And now, XDJ-Aero, DDJ-WeGo, and DDJ-SX!

But fails to correct KNOWN problematic FEATURES and show an ounce of support on a product they released about 2 years ago

QUIT coming out with new products left and right if you can't address issues customer's are OBVIOUSLY voicing on YOUR website

Bottom line...Pioneer releases new colors of the 850 a year later but fail to release a firmware update to correct a faulty product

Just imagine the sure-fire faults of all their other products and lack of support all those new products will receive

@Nick > What is badly designed? Please help me understand better what you are trying to get fixed. Rekordbox analyses the keys of tracks using Standard Notation. The Camelot System is licensed by Mixed In Key.

@Bob Jones > Thanks for your constructive feedback - I've forwarded this to our engineers.

@Quistuhpha > You are mistaken - the same engineers that work on the CDJ-850 for example, wouldn't also be working on the XDJ-Aero so the amount of new products is irrelevant.

Pioneer are aware of your sentiments - I have contacted the relevant people to let them know.

Thanks Gavin, appreciate the response!

@Gavin Hahahaha wow funny, THEN what are those CDJ-850 SPECIFIC engineers doing nowadays? Apparently releasing new color finishes and NOT support updates?

It's honestly true what everyone has said above.  I remember when I purchased my 850s two years ago they were my first CDJs ever, and I was so excited, because I was expecting them to be treated like how the 800MK2s were treatly in relation to the 1000MK3s.  Unfortunately, a lot of the issues that were around two years ago still persist and I can't help but feel like a sucker.  I thought paying a premium price, would provide a premium level of service and support, but apparently you don't always get what you paid for!  Please understand that the 850 is the only current model of CDJs which is a full standard jog wheele size and affordable to new DJs.  While I understand that you have to provide top notch support for your flagship product the CDJ 2000 and 900 because they cost the same amount as my university tuition, but there really should be some ongoing updates and communication between not just Gavin and Pulse, but maybe some of the people working on the product.  I must admit, I truly do believe you pass the comments on to the engineers, but it does feel as if they may be just words hitting a blank wall.  Not only that, but making numerous variations of the same faulty player in different colours just insults all of us who have been complaining on the core issues like the auto-loop features and rekordbox control.

ALL THAT, and, I know this next one isn't enitrely Pioneer's fault, but the fact that there is no HID support for the CDJ 850 in traktor after two years, when the Player was clearly advertised as being traktor ready and HID capable really misled me.  Once again I really know it's not really entirely Pioneer's fault, but I must admit I do feel misled about the future potential of my CDJs as "being able to be used in HID with popular DJ software" which isn't entirely true, because you can't unless the support is provided by the software company.  Don't worry I've blasted Native Instruments on this as well ;).

jsut to add to my comment above.  When I say paying a premium price, I meant shelling out an extra $400 dollars for CDJ 850s compared to a prominent CD deck from Denon which has a plethora of features and works beautifully on all media types and software.  I thought that based on comments and experience from other people that Pioneer really was a name to stand by, and so this affected my purchase decision.  Looking back on it now, though, I really do feel like I may have made the wrong decision.  Although if these, what seem simple, issues were resolved along with a harder push from Pioneer for software integration, there could still be a saving grace for Pioneer, in my books at least.

I think you mean $800^^^

^no I literally mean it would have cost $200 per deck extra only

^meaning I could've had a better product for just a bit more money, although at the time I thought the 850s were going to be good, that is ofcourse, before I found myself dealing with all these issues.

that makes sense my bad

Firmware has come out again for the 2000 and 900, any chance there will be an update for the 850 soon to fix some of the bugs listed above?

Well said KIKI, I for one think the 850s are a great bit of kit.

I think we all agree it's a great bit of kit.  But please keep in mind that Pioneer CDJs are of a higher quality, and sold at a premium.  As such they should be held to such standards.  There's really only a few issues (which shouldn't be happening anyway) that are holding this player back from being amazing.  It's not a matter of if these issues can be fixed, but rather a matter of when the engineers at Pioneer will get around to fixing them.

""Firmware has come out again for the 2000 and 900, any chance there will be an update for the 850 soon to fix some of the bugs listed above?"

Well say, when 850 will be update to correct fake autoloop ?