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CDJ woes!

I’ve been a cdj user since the bomb proof mark 1's and have "lived" with the issues in the 2000s which have generally been addressed in due course. I'm a Pioneer "fan" but I'm beginning to question my loyalty in the face of what seems like a user gouging exercise.

I paid a hefty sum for the 1000's, then another hefty sum for the 2000's, now I am being asked to pay another hefty sum for the nexus players which have new functionality that my 4 year old laptop has had ever since I bought it.

Yes I paid $1500 for my laptop 4 years ago, and I still use this with advanced HID on the 2000's and traktor. I have speedy track analysis, sync (lol), Waveform zoom,etc but my 2000's which cost double, can’t do this?

Imagine if each time Native instruments released a new version or updated release to their product, and demanded that I buy a new laptop every time. They would be out of business.

I'm not saying the hardware in the 2000's CAN do the things the nexus can do, but for 2 grand a pop... they should.

The only conclusion I can come to is that by hiring top dj's like laid back etc. to endorse these new features, we forget the fact that we now need to spend 4 grand to get a few new features that the 4 grand we already spent should have been able to give us.

Stick a laptop motherboard in the next versions of the cdj, then we can upgrade the memory, or cpu etc. to support new features rather than binning the whole thing each time for a new model.

My $1500 laptop is still going strong at gigs whether its nexus or 2000's and can still run the latest versions of Traktor. The Pioneer approach just seems a wee bit unfair.

This is just my view of why some of the bad vibes of late have been happening. I know Pulse and Gav are doing their best and they have always been helpful to me, but even they must see why this is happening.

Just my view of course, happy to be corrected.

;-(

Alex McDonald

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17 comentarios

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I understand your frustration but technology is complicated.  The DJs you see in the videos were not paid to appear - you can ask them directly and they'll tell you the same thing.  If your next question is "So why aren't they complaining about the players?", not everyone is having problems with them and the engineers are working hard to address the complaints and issues raised by those who are.  In regards to the compatibility with other software such as Traktor and Serato, unfortunately that requires the cooperation of other companies with products they haven't necessarily had the chance to work with until the release.

The CDJ2000nexus players are fantastic DJ tools but are enormously complex and updates are coming fast and furious to make them the best they can be.  Thanks for your patience.

Pulse 0 votos
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Firstly don't get me wrong - I am in no way sticking up for Pioneer. I, like many others, have spent a small fortune upgrading from the mk 1 to the Nexus and I too am having problems.

However, your arguement/cure is complete rubbish. Firstly, you cannot just stick a motherboard in an electrical item and magically make it future-proof. Even if you could, you seem to have forgotten that the Computer industry "suffers" with the same issues otherwise known as improvements. I once had a PC powered by a 486 processor with 32mb of RAM and a 200mb hard drive. Strangely it would not be capable of running Windows 7, Traktor and ANY current software - Should i expect it to??

Quote "Imagine if each time Native instruments released a new version or updated release to their product, and demanded that I buy a new laptop every time. They would be out of business." -

Microsoft do it. My (spare) 4 year old PC running XP is not capable of running Windows 7.

Printer manufacturers do it - if they choose not to write drivers for the latest version of Windows on your shiny new computer, you will need to buy a new printer.

If you bought yourself a new car 3 years ago would you expect the manufacturer to GIVE you the improvements they have since made to that model.

I could go on - but i don't have time..................

That all said - when Pioneer launch new products they could at least make sure they works properly before they start selling them.

Andy Hebberd 0 votos
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Andy, I think you're missing the point but you have an opinion and are entitled to it.

Pulse I understand what you are saying but if my 4 year old laptop can run traktor with 4 decks, synced, and zoomed wave forms etc, why can't my 2000 s? Surley for 2k a machine they must be more capable than my laptop?

Anyways, I dont want to start another "closed" thread but perhaps the units are over priced for the hardware inside?

Alex.

Alex McDonald 0 votos
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I'll certainly agree that they are over priced!

Andy Hebberd 0 votos
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Surley for 2k a "detected" machine they must be more capable than my laptop?

Dont forget that while your computer is doing all of this it is also running your os and streaming multi-ch audio (in this case up to 4 stereo outs and maybe 1 stereo in).

it seems like what pioneer is doing is putting less power in the cdj2000 they you have in your average smart phone, calling it the best thing ever and charging people a fortune for them. Dot get me wrong I loved the 1000mk3's and had 3 of them they were a great piece of kit. It is stunning that there are so many "hardware limitations" in a "detected machine" and some how the screen is a problem? because turning on and off pixels is a new thing... I would love to see what a company like NI could do with the cdj if they had complete access to it. redo the ui and really nail the integration of there software to the cdj.

Scott Kilpatrick 0 votos
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I can't speak to why the hardware is priced how it is, but I do know that there is a heap of money spent on R&D to design and develop these units (bugs and problems aside).  Your laptop certainly can do a lot of things but the CDJ is not a laptop.  I wish I had more I could tell you to make you a happy user but as a forum moderator and product trainer, I simply don't have that kind of information or knowledge on the product.  Sorry!

Pulse 0 votos
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Pulse,

you do a great job here in being the "sometimes unpopular" point of contact for Pioneer so there is no need for you to do any more to make me a happy customer. That resposibility lies firmly with Pioneer itself.

A.

Alex McDonald 0 votos
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Alex, I appreciate your comments and we do pass along the sentiment of users to Pioneer staff, it's not just reporting bugs.  We want to keep users happy, even outside of software / firmware updates.

Pulse 0 votos
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I see it as a breakdown in Pioneer's testing process. They have such a limited number of people who actually have access to the product before a release, that they don't get a good cross section of users giving feedback until it is released into the wild. At that point, the real users, not just professional DJs in controlled environments get to do real beta testing at their own expense.

This is nothing new. Pioneer did the same thing with the original 2000 player and, let's be honest, never ironed out all the issues 3 years later. I'm happy with my 2000s, but I know plenty of people who use different features than I do that have complaints that have never fully been addressed.

Pioneer wants to deliver to retail very quickly after announcement, I get that, but they don't seem to even give their employee pool an extended advanced look at products in order to catch some of these glaring faults.

This is why companies like Microsoft give Windows betas out for free to the general public. They get feedback from people with all kinds of backgrounds with all different set-ups. It gives them months to fix issues which is why with Windows 7 and 8, they have been solid from launch. A stark comparison to when Vista or even XP launched.

While I have complete confidence that Pioneer with resolve (most of) the issues with the players, it is poor business to have your customers spend a small fortune on new gear, some of who's livelihood depends on it, and they are not properly tested in a production environment. Saying that the technology is complicated is a complete cop out of a statement. Of COURSE it is complicated which is why it HAS to be tested BEFOREHAND. Pioneer should be ashamed of themselves for doing this again.

RyanTV 0 votos
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@RyanTV > It is an issue that is being addressed however beta testing firmware on a DJ player is systematically different to beta testing for Microsoft - I understand the comparison you are trying to make however. A larger cross-sectional sample size has been suggested.

Gavin 0 votos
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Correct, I wasn't implying that Pioneer would have the ability to beta test on the scale of Microsoft. That, obviously, isn't plausible. The idea is that Pioneer must realize that they have now created more than just a digital turntable. These products are no longer only connected to only a mixer. They have an infinite number of possible connection scenarios, many file types that people acquire from many different source, etc. Pioneer has PLENTY of people that work in their DJ division that, I'm sure, fancy themselves DJs. Send every one of them home with a set along with a stringent NDA and let them have at it and do all this nonsense that the paying customers are now doing.

The whole situation is a compete failure and it is, unfortunately affecting Pioneer's cusomer's bottom line. People depend on the equipment to pay their bills and provide for their family. There are so many glaring issues with these decks that I'd be very surprised if this doesn't damage Pioneer's reputation long term. In fact, it should. People should be extremely angry. Pioneer needs to learn how to be more transparent with their customers who shelled out multiple thousands of dollars and are now being left in the lurch.

I understand that you and Pulse are merely parroting what the overloards tell you and are bound by that. I get it. I would do the exact same thing if I had an agreement with Pioneer. I feel bad that you guys are in the crossfire and appreciate that you go through everything, but someone seriously needs to get together with Pioneer DJ brass and rethink the policies that surround their communication with customers.

RyanTV 0 votos
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It already has affected to name "nexus". No one I know will touch it now.
The clubs are where the business makes it's mark, I can't see any clubs using these players yet.
I see the djm nexus has just come out, I wouldlove to see the same amount of "hype" around an improvement in product testing "prior" to release than new products that dont work.
Anyhow, as it's been said, this is the only place we get any kind of contact with pioneer via pulse /Gavin and you guys serve a vital role.
Pioneer should also leverage this communications channel and listen to what it's customers are saying. To ignore would be (and is becoming so) deterimental to the brand.

Alex McDonald 0 votos
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I would have to agree with Alex, and wonder myself how 3yrs later a new and improved product can be released with the same problems if not more than it's discontinued counter part. Keep pushing out new products... let's improve upon the products already out. 

DJKIDQUEST 0 votos
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I had problems with my 2000's the day i got them (still have). I wish i had just kept my 1000 mk3's. I've only ever posted on the forum since owning the 2000's. I agree with all of the above and are as angry and un happy as all the other people about the problems, pioneer and the cost of these players. I sold my cdj 1000's for almost as much as i paid for them the day they come out, all because the prices went up. It is a lot of money spend on players that simply are 'not as described'. if pioneer sold cdj's on ebay, the account would have been closed the same week it opened.

I've given up on pioneer right now. I was going to sell my djm 800 and 2000's and upgrade, but i dont think i'll bother. I dont dj that much anymore and by the sounds of it i will only be wasting my money. One thing i have to ask though, why the f*ck does the nexus have a sync button? It seems far to easy for people to dj these days, there is no skill or learning involved anymore. Load up your software or mp3, cue it, press sync, press start, go back to playing solitaire. I remember reading somewhere of someone who visited a festival i think it was, thay said 'it was great. saw (so and so band) and calvin harris was great (or did a great job) at pushing buttons'. Just about sums it up really. you can be a dj with an ipad app that seem just a good as a set of £3000 cdj's. When i started at age 15 with my soundlab direct drive's it took me ages to learn, it was a skill.

I do wonder where my money has gone and on what. And i have given up trying to get answers on most things now as it just gets brushed under the carpet. It took years for the faults i complained about to get fixed or attempted to get fixed (master tempo etc, but lets not go there, as pioneer never wanted to) and things still are not right. But i'll just have to give up and live with it. There are things that need to be improved in rekordbox too, and we are still waiting, but hey ho, another christmas passes.

Pioneer DJ customers are unhappy, fact. Maybe pioneer should include testing with select customers. At random choose people from the forums. At a heavily reduced cost, send them some kit before launch, iron out bugs etc, i dont know. But something needs to be improved and fast, because for high end tech like this and the problems/customer service we get is not good. Would you expect to go and buy a top of the range 3D tv for £3000, and the 3D not work too good, and be told 'you need to wait until an update is ready? No you wouldnt. It should work from the box, simple, thats what we expect right?

AntzDj 0 votos
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Everybody, that like me, got the 2000's mk1 since the very release of it knows what it is waiting a LONGGG time untill some issues were fixed.

@ Alex > I think the units hardware are pretty much able to do the job! What I really doubt is that Pioneer trully puts all their efforts on fixing things. They trust the name they built under solid gear like the 1000ks and seem to be more worried on dropping new stuff on the marketing on and on before they certify things are working right than being scared to burn the brand.

@ Pulse > Yes, maybe those djs are really so amazing that they are the only ones not having problems with the decks! I don't blame you or any of the forum moderators for not being able to do more than taking the problems to Pioneer crew but yes you all do try to undercover many many problems and I have been seeing this for a long time before I even started to post here. And NO, technology is not so complicated otherwise there wouldnt be so many programs for djing out there. How come they work perfectly with a piece of crap like the controllers we see out there for sale that are made 99% cheap plastic??? Cause the software they control is good! Pioneer needs serious improvement on their software and firmware before they can reach the same level.

Like somebody here said he believes they are able to fix it... Yes I also think so!!! But I seriously think there must be much more effort put on these problems than it has been the past time. Taking forever (sometimes 6 months and sometimes a year and sometimes forever) to fix things is just a way to burn down the brand. Just like not giving a propper feedback to their customers. I think moderators here should be able to interact in a higher level with Pioneer engineering team and also think the response from Pioneer through their website should be on the level they think their product should stand at! I complained about the 4.2 loop problem and got NO answer at all!!!! Is this a way to treat customers that buy their top products??

Like Antz just said... this is just going too far and maybe its time to jump out of the boat and just watch it sinking from somewhere safe... The only problem is to watch a bunch of my money sinking with it...

 

Stroboscope 0 votos
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"The DJs you see in the videos were not paid to appear"

@pulse, do you honestly believe this?? Who do you think needs the other more?? Do you think top djs need pioneer to advertise themselves?? Noway man, it's the other way around. Pioneer needs the djs to advertise their products. Not only pioneer pays thems, but also pays them thousands. The products are overpriced for that reason. Cause pioneer spends a lot to advertise. Everything else it's just excuses.

Dream Treez 0 votos
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