DJM-450 Microphone Level

Might anyone have any thoughts on this? Have any owners of the DJM 450 tested their mics yet? No one from Pioneer???

1. Have yo tried to lower on the Shure transmitter the Gain setting?

2. What happens if you try using a regular hardwired microphone instead of a wireless one?

Thanks for your response.
Yes, I have reduced the incoming wireless mics on the settings of the microphone by -10db.... But it still is loud. Again, it seems as though an Attenuation option would be what would help this issue.

This happens with cabled, or wireless mics. It also happens with Balanced and Unbalanced cables.

I am currently trying to troubleshoot this with the dealer I bought it from to see if they have the same issue on a different unit.

Other people who own this mixer have also agreed with me that the mic is way too loud.

I have been Troubleshooting this item and working with Support reps at the Authorized dealer from which I purchased this unit. They have called me back and CONFIRMED that they have TESTED and they have obtained the same results I get: the Mic level is too loud on the unit.

The tested it on their repair bench mimicking a similar setup with Active Monitors. They experienced the same exact symptoms I get.

I just got off the phone with Pioneer DJ, and they weren't much help.
They want me send the unit in for repair, but they wouldn't understand that the dealer just tested and Co firmed the same issue on a brand new unit, with the latest firmware on it.

I asked if they could please connect me with someone who would be able to relay this information to the Engineering team, but the woman was rather rude and said that "that won't happen at this level, we need to see if your particular personal unit needs repair"- customer service, anyone? Anyway, I am convinced by what I have found from other owners, and now my dealer on a brand new unit that The issue is found on ALL DJM-450s. Those who are not reporting the issue is because they have not attempted to use the microphone in a live setting, with the Master Volume at about 12-1 O'clock... -*note testing it at Low levels will not be an adequate test. This unit is made to connect to PASS at louder levels.

I'm really hoping for some assistance.

Thanks again.

@jasoncova > Sorry for these issues.  I am creating a support ticket for you which will be relayed to the engineering team.  I will report back with their replies as I receive them.  This week is a national holiday in Japan.  The team will return on Monday.  We apologize for this inconvenience and we appreciate your patience and understanding.

@Mark thank you very much for your attention and assistance with this. Please know that I am very thankful for your consideration and Pioneer DJ looking into this.

Respectfully,

Jason Cova

Jason, the engineering team would like to know exactly what output level your microphones are set to.  Photos would be helpful.

Hello Jason,

DJM planner and engineers answered to your issue.
As Shure wireless mic has gain in itself, too high level volume may have been input to the specified input level of DJM-450. 

Please see page 5 of the Shure BLX User Manual. 
It is recommended to adjust the gain on the Shure microphone accordingly. 
https://www.shure.co.jp/dmsfiles/default/shure/products/wireless/user_guides/BLX_User_Guide_Asia-308dcbc07f2a66b402f903ecb06f9e31.pdf

Please consider what type of microphone you use when you adjust the volume.

If you still have any issues, please let us know.

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

@keiko and @mark thank you for your response and time. @keiko please see my comments posted above here on April 26th - I have tested this issue with multiple types of microphones, as well as have tried turning the gain down on the wireless microphones themselves to -10db as recommended by the manuals. I have even had the Authorized dealer I purchased it from Sweetwater, test a brand new unit themselves, with the updated firmware and they obtained the same results. Please see the two comments posted above back on April 26th where I describe adjusting the gain.

@marki apologize for my delay and for nothing posting more photos, if you see the photos I have posted with this comment these photos above from when I first made this comment pretty much describe the issue... Please see the photos which is what happens in an actuality when using the microphone.

Please note that this issue did not happen on the previous unit I used (the Pioneer DJ XDJ-AERO) as that unit had an Attenuation know that one could make adjustments to. It seems the problem here is that there is not way to adjust Attenuation on the microphone input on the DJM 450.

Please note that at this time this issue is still unresolved.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I hope to be able to find a resolution. Again my recommendation is that an Attenuation option be added to the microphone in the settings as a firmware update.

Hey Pioneer Support-

Weeks and months have past on this and no resolve.  What is the delay?

It is very easy to reproduce this issue and is very well documented in these posts.

The engineering team would like to know if this issue still exists when using the 1/4" output jack on the microphone.  Please try using a male 1/4" to male XLR cable and let us know the results.  Thank you for your continued patience.

Hey Pioneer Support-

Just try a simple test with a Shure SM58 wired microphone (or some other wired mic) XLR out of the mic to 1/4" balanced connector cord and you will see the reported issue.  

Very simple to test and reproduce.

Thanks @PS ! Yes, unfortunately this is STILL an unresolved issue. Even though I've reached out here, I've called and spoken to Pioneer DJ Support- you can see above how that turned out, I've spoken to the dealer I've purchased it from- which they have been great about it- they've offered to replace my unit, but being that this issue has been tested and confirmed to happen on brand new units whipped with the current firmware version on them that would not resolve this issue. The last Official a comment above was written by someone who clearly didn't read my posts here, as they would have seen that I have tested this substantially with various Microphone types and even adjusted their output... lowering it by 10db...,Every mobile event I do I have to constantlay adjust the Master Level (by turning it back to 12 O'clock- if it is at any point higher than that and the mic is at a level higher than 9 or 10 o'clock there is always feedback). This makes it increasingly tedious as I do many events where I am Master of Ceremonies and use the microphone extensively. Some have suggested just using an external Non-powered mixer for the microphone...which I think defeats the whole purpose of having a mixer with a microphone input on it already.
Please, if there is any way this could be resolved via a firmware update- a timely release of this would be much appreciated! Hoping to get some assistance on this matter.
Thank you very much for your time and attention.
Respectfully,

Jason

@Jason > Can I ask why you called technical support when you have already posted here, and been included on a ticket with our product engineers?

We're still in the process of discussing the problem / solution - your patience is appreciated.

@Pulse > Yes, of course you can ask.
I called a while back, if you look at my first post- I posted on March 6th and never got any acknowledgment or comment until April 26th... after I came back and posted a second comment to see if anyone if any thoughts. I called tech support BEFORE this post received any attention- which as you can see took a while- and even when it finally got attention- it wasn't very thorough as they suggested doing something I had already attempted and documented in a post here (see above thread).

I'll gladly be patient- a simple acknowledgement from Pioneer DJ would have certainly helped with that. The last official comment left here from them was redundant and not helpful- and they asked to inform them if I still had the issue. Well, the issue still persists and thus I posted again to let them know.

Thanks for your attention to this.

@Jason > Sorry if that last post came across the wrong way, I was trying to ascertain the various communication timings! I'm jumping into the fray late to try and sort things out and assist with clarifying the information with our engineers.

The internal conversation had a bit of confusion going on as well - I hope to get you a clear answer soon. Thanks!

While I know this does not solve the issue, I wanted to make a correction as my last post above is incorrect.  I was told to advise against using the 1/4" output on the mic.  Apologies for the confusion.  

@Pulse > No worries, thanks For Clarifying and taking the time to look into this. I'm eager and hopeful for a solution to this! Again- I'm not sure if this is something that may be addressed or resolved by adding an attenuation adjustment setting for the Microphone input in the settings? Just a thought. Thanks again.
@Mark > Thanks for noting the correction, and for your attention to this as well.

Here we are 5+ months later and nothing from Pioneer.  Way to take care of your customers Pioneer...

Hey Pioneer Support-

Just try a simple test with a Shure SM58 wired microphone (or some other wired mic) XLR out of the mic to 1/4" balanced connector cord and you will see the reported issue.  

Very simple to test and reproduce.

Sorry for the delay.  Unfortunately, the level of the microphone input is fixed and can not be adjusted via firmware update.  

My personal recommendation is that if this issue is affecting your use of the DJM-450, you can pick up an in-line attenuator or volume control unit.  I know this isn't ideal but it should resolve the issue.

Are you kidding me Pioneer?  You admit to a design issue and the resolution is we have to go out and buy another piece of gear to deal with it?

How about instead you do the right thing and issue a manufacturer recall and replace the mic pre-amp board with one that works correctly...

Just to clarify, those recommendations I made did not come from Pioneer DJ.  They came from me personally.

Thanks @Mark for your comment and suggestions. I have to admit though that this is pretty disheartening. I have been waiting for official communication from Pioneer DJ - the only comment I have received from them so far is something I had already attempted as troubleshooting on my own and documented on this thread (showing they didn't read through it). As a Mobile DJ I depend on microphone usage extensively. I find it difficult to believe that I had better sound and performance from the microphone input on the XDJ-AERO than on this new DJM-450. There has to be something that Pioneer DJ can do in providing a resolution to this issue. As of right now this is not resolved. Unfortunately, I am at a loss as to whom I can speak to about this to get any real assistance.

Might anyone have any suggestions as to how to get Pioneer DJ to actually help with this? As far as I'm concerned this is a flaw and even a defect in the product.

@PS Thank you for your time and consideration!

Hoping I get some help.

Thanks @Mark appreciate your prompt response. Please pardon my tone in what follows in this post as my intention is not for this to come off as aggressive or as a nuisance in any way.

Unfortunately, however that's not a solution to the existing issue at hand. That's just a response to a resolution, that I myself had suggested as a potential fix. If that's not going to resolve the issue, my question then becomes: What then can Pioneer DJ do to resolve this defective performance of a Microphone input that runs excessively hot (loud) on their new DJM -450? I have reached out to my authorized dealer and they have been very helpful, even offered to send me a replacement unit, but noted it would behave the same as they have tested as well. They even offered to just send me a completely different Mixer made from a competitor. I have said no to those offers at this point as I have been waiting to see what Pioneer DJ can do. So what am I, and other users who need to actually use the microphone supposed to do? Go and spend $50 - $65 on purchasing something to be a solution to a poorly designed input? I'm just trying to see what Pioneer DJ can do to actuality help resolve this rather than just say "it's a fixed (static/unchangeable) input". To me that is certainly not in any way a solution, and if it's left just as that, it is definitely inadequate perhaps even bad customer care. I like Pioneer DJ, a lot, and am hoping that this gets addressed better than this so as to continue to like them and their products. Thanks again @Mark. I'm hoping someone from Customer Relations reaches out to me to help.

A few more months and no word from Engineering on how and when they will fix this very easily reproducible issue?

Hey Pioneer - just because this is a lower end mixer does not mean we need to get ignored. 

Copied and pasted from above:

The official communication from Pioneer DJ is that the level of the microphone input is fixed and can not be adjusted via firmware update.  

So what is their plan to fix this?  A product recall so a re-engineered mic pre-amp board can be installed?

Hello all,

Sorry for the late update.

DJM-450 engineers thoroughly investigated this issue and they would like to ask you what kind of sound you heard when the MIC Vol knob position is not in between 7:00 to 9:00?

Is the sound distorted?

Or, is the sound just too loud without any distortion? 

This is a very crucial thing when they narrow down the root cause of this issue.

Thank you very much for your kind cooperation.

CRM, Pioneer DJ

In a reply to a email from Keiko below: In my test using a wired Shure SM58 microphone the sound was not distorted when the MIC Vol knob position is not in between 7:00 to 9:00.  It was just very, very loud (e.g. too hot of signal).

Hello all,
Sorry for the late update.
DJM-450 engineers thoroughly investigated this issue and they would like to ask you what kind of sound you heard when the MIC Vol knob position is not in between 7:00 to 9:00?
Is the sound distorted?
Or, is the sound just too loud without any distortion?
This is a very crucial thing when they narrow down this issue.
Thank you very much for your kind cooperation.
CRM, Pioneer DJ