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Limiter

Gavin, Can you please talk to the engineers and provide an elaborated explanation of the limiter and its behavior? Is going in to the red zone no longer harmful to the mixer? If yes, does Pioneer back that up 100%? Thanks in advance

walter_white

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From the announcement:

"SUPERIOR peak limiter eliminates distortion even at club volumes

DJs can max the volume without worrying about distortion or clipping, as the newly designed peak limiter kicks in as soon as the input is pushed too high. Plus, all four channels are equipped with a Peak Level Meter for checking input levels at a glance."

A limiter is a type of compressor designed for a specific purpose — to limit the level of a signal to a certain threshold. Whereas a compressor will begin smoothly reducing the gain above the threshold, a limiter will almost completely prevent any additional gain above the threshold. A limiter is like a compressor set to a very high compression ratio. The graph below shows a limiting ratio of infinity to one, i.e. there is no gain at all above the threshold.

Input Level vs Output Level With Limiting Threshold

Limiting Graph

Limiters are used as a safeguard against signal peaking (clipping). They prevent occasional signal peaks which would be too loud or distorted. Limiters are often used in conjunction with a compressor — the compressor provides a smooth roll-off of higher levels and the limiter provides a final safety net against very strong peaks.

Gavin 0 votes
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Thanks for the prompt response Gavin. Just two more questions...

So the red totally safe now? And if so, then why does the 2000 nexus have red? Just curious a bit.

walter_white 0 votes
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@walter > There's no real actual danger of running in the red on the mixer.... Running in the red only means the audio is over amplified and being distorted.

Gavin 0 votes
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Will this feature be available in the near future, on the 900 as well??

walter_white 0 votes
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Agreed it would be good to have this on the 900

PaulM72 0 votes
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@Gavin, no danger in redlining :) Sorry but redlining = distortion = overdrive = clipping your amps = DC voltage to your subs which will in turn ruin them rather quickly.

Maybe no danger for the mixer itself, but there might be some other more expensive equipment down the signal chain.

 

And regaring redlining, its never ok! Not even with a limiter. The thing that the limiter does is cutting the peaks and that leaves you with less dynamics and you will loose the tops and your waveforms and it will probably sound like crap when compared to a dj who respects headroom and dynamics.

The limiter should be used for occasional peaks and not for continues abuse of dynamics. This is a peak limiter, not a brickwall limiter.

And Gavin, the image you posted is a Brickwall limiter, it can be set to not allow anything over threshold, while a peaklimiter is more forgiving in those terms.

Brickwall limiters also turn down the level before the spikes by a look-ahead delay. A peak limiter does not have look-ahead and thus a period of time can pass before clamping down on the signal = Your spikes might go thru before limiting is applied.

 

dtm 0 votes
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im not only djing, but i run a company for sound rentals and i produce music on some occasions as well, redlining and limiting is something i deal with in all aspects on almost daily basis :)

dtm 0 votes
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dtm, at least there's someone else that understands gain, limiters and such .... I was banging my head against the wall about 18 months ago trying to educate people regarding gain structure and its importance and also why relying on a limiter to solve DJ's red-lining was a bad option .....

DJBostonGreen 0 votes
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Gavin's picture indicates the DJM2000 now has PEAK STOP (brickwall) ..... is that true, if it is, then its a dangerous thing to put on a DJ mixer, you are basically telling the DJ its ok to red-line, we got it covered, when in fact, you will just end up with a square wave being sent to the amps/processor, a quick way of melting the drivers coils ..........

You need to be clear on what it has, whats the threshold?

DJBostonGreen 0 votes
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@dtm > Thanks for sharing that information. Yes, while I did say there is no damage to the mixer there certainly can be damage further down the audio chain. I know of at least one situation of a local club where the DJ thought it would be a good idea to turn off the limiter and blew up a 20,000 euro system.

Please don't get too hung up on the diagram of the limiter above - it was only intended to be a brief explanation of what a limiter is to @walter_white. As for the exact specification of the DJM2000 Peak Limiter, I've asked the engineers.

Gavin 0 votes
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Sorry... but on limiter isn´t any options? Even "on/off" in menu?

After update, I haven´t any sign of limiter in my DJM 2000  3.18, everything else works great.

Ondřej Mikulášek 0 votes
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Oh... holding "live sampler" button while start

Ondřej Mikulášek 0 votes
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You should simply A. Audio Technician that limits you via his PA-Mixing system (Still Redlining and digital distortion is something you want to avoid) B. Keep green.

Sammy 0 votes
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You can't fry a channel on a mixer by red-lining it even if there are not limiters. Pushing into a compressor-limiter crushes the RMS and increases the chance of thermal damage to woofers almost as bad as clipping does.

Reticuli 0 votes
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