Rekordbox tagging (ID3) and database questions

Looks like I'm going to have to set the example since you guys a Pioneer can't figure it out! Here's what took you 4 years, I did in 2 hours. I hope this helps everyone not to loose their info. Feel free to modify/re-copy/paste if there are any errors.

Broken Tags:
- Rating: Does NOT save to ID3 at all but yet loads ID3 values on "reload", can overwrite RB database, never update this field in RB it's a waste of time, use another software for this field!
- Artist: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Comments: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Track Title: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Album: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Track Number: Saves to ID3 but for some reason cannot save the value "0". Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Composer: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Label: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Remixer: Saves to ID3 but does NOT save ONLY when erasing the tag entirely. Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely
- Year: Saves to ID3 but for some reason cannot save the value "0". Weird. Subject to "reload" issues when trying to erase the field completely

Proper Tags:
- Key: Saves to ID3 (only if selected under preferences -> Analysis, no problem there)
- Genre: Saves to ID3 (no problem there)

Proprietary Tags:
- BPM: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- Album Artist: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- Disc Number: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- Lyricist: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- Mix Name: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- DJ Play Count: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- KUVO message: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)
- Realease date: Does NOT save to ID3 and that's fine since it's proprietary (NOT erased on "reload", not viewable on other software)

I just posted an issue related to the ID3 tags about the "label" field being cleared and artwork going missing, there is clearly issues about how Rekordbox tags files. I recommend tagging your files in iTunes, or the program you use for organizing your tunes, so you can be sure that all your work is also accessible in other programs.

There are no top-end DVS or music management software apps which allow for the user to modify the database.  Exported content, sure, but not within the program itself.  This achieves two goals: not allowing the user to screw things up royally and keeping a standard that is able to be supported both by the program and technical support.

Sorry!

@ Pulse

With Traktor you can do ANYTHING you want, exept analyzing the keys, i use MIK5 for that

And to be honest, nothing beats mp3tag for edit the tags and ad covers.

And that is kind of annoying to know that after hours of work editing tags, adding covers and analyzing files, and putting everything into rekordbox, it screws everything up. not showing covers, reanalyzing the files and redit the bpms that you know is right in the first place plus som other issues, the idea of a complete solution falls apart, i have never had so much troulble with other DVS programs or systems.

If i use Serato, you just add the files as they are, and voila it worx, its the same with traktor

If i burn mp3files on a dvd or just run my mp3files off a usbstick without RB interaction, it works well also, but i loose all the features that i really want, its a shame really.

Cheers

/Martin

just to make it clear to anyone at pioneer who has the capacity to read, i have not bought a single pioneer product since discovering this tagging issue. i will never buy any of your products if i am unable to write id3 tags (or whatever standard evolves in the future) and to safely use tags written by other software. this issue illustrates great arrogance in your team and an unwillingness to support your user's needs.

if you do not think that a)being unable to export tags to id3 or some other system independent of rb for inter-ecosystem transferal, and even more importantly b) rb should be safe to use around existing tags (honestly, you've been told for years that your software is damaging people's libraries and have blatantly ignored their requests for help here in your very own forum) then i don't see why anyone would entertain buying your products.

rekordox uses ID3 v2.4, but Windows only supports up to 2.3 natively.  The only things stored custom within the database are the colors and all the cues/loops.

As it's not an open-format database (which, basically nobody uses), there's no API for exchanging information.  The only exception to this is a 3rd party tool for exchange with Traktor.

There are plenty of music systems out there that use open database formats.  And I find it a little ironic that a company named "Pioneer" seems to be basing their software implementations on other companies ideals.

why does rekordbox not show artwork?im using windows 8.

It would be great for the program to write to the actual file itself instead to the database as the tunes would only have to be analysed once over multiple computers and operating systems!

Okay, here's a weird one related to tagging and v2.0.3:

Most of my files are .aif and I have no issues with tags, but i've a cluster of 200+ MP3's that import or reload tags into the comment field incorrectly every...time...

If I look at the look at the file with a utility (dbpoweramp) it shows id3v2.3 comment tag of 'FOO' and and id3v1 comment tag of 'BAR'.  Rekordbox pulls 'BAR' into the library comment field, indicating that it pulls from that first (standard behavior is to ignore deprecated tags, BTW) 

So, you'll probably tell me to delete the v1 tags, right?  Well, here's where it really gets weird:  I delete the tracks from the library, and then delete all id3v1 tags on the MP3s, then re-import them into the library and guess what's back?  That's right, those id3v1 comments are back again.

Now, why is software supposed to ignore deprecated tags?  Because it is common practice to leave the information in place to avoid dangerous rewrites of large media files.  Usually, the tags are marked inactive and left in the file.  Please tell me why Rekordbox is even using id3v1 tags in the first place?  They are ancient, and in most cases are truncated to 39 characters (not very useful for a DJ!)

...some additional info, and this is simpler to test out:

if I take one of these wayward mp3s, and load it in, when I expect to get 'FOO' in the comment, I get 'BAR' instead.

In rekordbox, if I edit the field to 'FOO', everything looks good.  But if I click 'reload tag' it will revert back to 'BAR'.

PING?!?!?!

Here's some more info on the behavior:

if there are multiple COMM fields in ID3v2, Rekordbox appears to pull in the LAST entry on a Reload Tag operation.  If you edit the tag in Rekordbox, it overwrites the first COMM field and leaves the 2nd alone.  This ensures that when you reload, you always get the wrong info which you can not edit.

Pulse VDJ has an app that is free for registerd users that takes the VDJ database and writes the data back to the music file and vice versa. It would be nive if Mixvibes could do the same for RB.

Hi,

I'm new to RB.

Am I right that when I update the tags RB can not write it back to the files?

I've just updated a tag (key) with a value which was empty before. File modification time stamp did not change and a refresh in Tag & Rename didn't show the changes. So I started to look around in the forum and found this thread. ;-)

After that I tried to reload tags but the tag (key) didn't change to "empty". Still contains the value which seems to be stored only in the database. ???

Looks to me that I still use only Tag & Rename, Serato, foobar2000 and KeyFinder for tagging and before I go djing I drop the whole library and re-import all files?

@Pulse: "There are no top-end DVS or music management software apps which allow for the user to modify the database."

Why not open yours then and make it open source?

@Aristotle: Some formats do not support embedding information in the file. For example, WAV.

@Levi > Open != better. What is it you're trying to accomplish?

WAV does support embedding, but the number of fields is limited.

Hey! Can Rekordbox save BPM values to ID3 tags, for mp3s?

How I set up Reckordbox to automatically write analysed BPM into ID3 tags?

I've found the option for saving the Key analysis in ID3 tag but nothing for BPM.

@MiniBum > Some fields are stored whereas others are not. BPM and key, for example, are not written to the ID3 tag, those are internal database fields.

Actually, Windows10 (right click on mp3 file/properties/details), TagScanner, Mp3Tag, maybe others too, can read initial key, written in ID3 tag, from Rekordbox, after track/key analysis :D

Ah, that must have changed recently because it didn't used to write the key. ;) Sorry about that!

are you saying that RB is writing your BPMs to id3 tag? i've been trying to get that to happen for ages!

how can i get the BPMs analysed by RB into ID3?

Nop, not BPM, only key is written in ID3 tags, if you check in Settings / Analysis / Key Analysis the "Write value to the ID3 tag" box. :)

Maybe Pulse will pass to developers team the " Analysis \ BPM Analysis \ Write value to the ID3 tag" request.

@ Pulse!!!  Hey buddy, can we have the list that this guy asked for 4 years ago at the beginning of the thread please ?!?!  I'm talking about a list of what RB write to the tags and what it does NOT. 

I shouldn't have to mess up my database for that and waste my precious time. If I have to do that, you will loose me and I'm going back to Traktor! Here's the logic: If we know that there is a field that RB will write to, then we can use that field for writing down the Key, comment, etc...  For example if it does it in "Remixer" re-writes, heck, i'll put it there while you guys at pioneers figure it out! But someone save us OUR precious time and let us F-Know! For real! Not only do we have a design issue here, but it seems we have a comprehension and communication issue as well.

Don't leave us hanging man... This is a MAJOR FLAW.  The design concept is straight jacket thinking, it's big brother restrictions here... This thread has been kicking for 4 years.  Whatever methods you have inside your company to flag this one, it needs to be done ASAP or i'm leaving all your products behind! Not a joke!  Write to ID3 for at least comments or key! Seriously! Let's wake up! 2016 here!

In addition, I want to clarify the importance of this issue and how many people are affected on this entire planet!

Everyone on this planet who uses a combination of Rekordbox + Traktor or MIK pointing to the same database of songs, has this problem!! No joke! Everyone who uses MIK's beat intensity analysis that writes to the comments tag or any other program that writes to ID3 tags (other than key) for that matter causes issues when retrieving it in Rekordbox. More precisely, this means that using the "reload" tag button in RekordBox to get that written information will ERASE EVERY OTHER INFORMATION that is part of the non-savable fields in Rekordbox. All that information that you took time to manage in Rekordbox, and that you inserted in the non-savable tags will be overwritten. All that because your software decided not to write to ID3 tags to make it uniform with all software. You can at least implement a "write to comments" tag check mark too in the settings for F-Sakes!!!  People would simply be able to click "reload" tags without loosing anything. You can bet that all the people on the planet who use a combination of Rekordbox and Traktor and MIK will not want to tag and manage the songs in Rekordbox out of fear of loosing what they had in Rekordbox. This translates to a worse adoption of the software and a harder migration. This translates into a loss of customer base. For example, I decided not to buy Pioneer equipment since the ecosystem is inflexible to other software. I now choose to do every tagging in Traktor and only click "reload" tag in Rekordbox if I have a gig on it. I chose not to buy your Rekordbox DJ because of that since it isn't up to par with Traktor.  Because of this, I never CAN use your suggested matching tracks system in the software, or neither will I ever put the time into your software because I know it won't write in the comments field and won't be accessible elsewhere. So we are effectively saying this is happening to that entire demographics of people who use Traktor or MIK to write to comments tag and other standard tags that Rekordbox doesn't save too.  Do you realize how big this demographics is?!  I really don't think you do realize! Or do you guys have you heads up your you know what.... That you can't see the sunshine?!

@ Pulse, if by the next patch, this update is not implemented, since it's been request 4 years ago, not only I will let go all Pioneer products, but I will also find a way to send a letter to the CEO and trust me I will, mention the disconnection between this forum and the design team. I will mention the lack of communication costing money and customers for him. I will mention the demographics that it is affected and the lack of sales in Rekordbox DJ. I will mention that his competitor is winning because of this. It is NOT an exaggeration, it's COMPLETELY LOGICAL, try it! You will see for yourself that we have a point! Now, tell me a CEO that wouldn't want every Traktor user to easily migrate to Rekordbox! Or ANY other software user to migrate to Rekordbox for that matter! Tell me one that wouldn't for such a small change!?! Let's wake up, and let's start giving a shit because it will cost your your job!  Start your business case with the design team NOW.  I swear I will do it if it's not fixed by the next patch! And maybe everyone else in this forum should contact the CEO too!  This is a complete employee incompetence at it's best!  Before you start crying and taking it personally, PLEASE realize this is a huge demographics! Cover your butt and mention it to the design team before it's too late.

@Alexis >There is no disconnect between us here on the forums and the product planning, design, and support teams. We report issues and complaints on a daily basis as they arise. I'm sorry that this issue has existed for so long. They are aware of the many issues and complaints with rekordbox, this one included. I can't promise a fix for this issue will be in the next update or the update after that, especially when the software team is putting out all the fires from the 4.2.0 release. If this is what pushes you to sell your gear and move to another brand, I'm sorry that we have failed you and I wish you all the best with your future endeavours. You're more than welcome to contact the president of the company, he's a very nice man.

Pulse, thanks for replying.  But it's very important here to understand the difference between my perception and the reality.  In other words, when you say " If this is what pushes you to sell your gear and move to another brand, I'm sorry that we have failed " - It is NOT just my perception.  You are talking about everyone ON THE PLANET that writes to those tags (except key tag), using other software.  I am an objective person! I am convinced that just because people in the world are just not as expressive as me, it doesn't mean that they haven't found a way around through less adoption of your ecosystem. I'm not crazy when I say it affect everyone using MIK and Traktor or any other software for that matter!

But not everyone on the planet (myself included) has issues with the tags between software. I use Serato and rekordbox and don't have the issues as described. It probably comes down to workflow.

How do you know that?  If you're a flagship employee... I have friend DJs here who complain about that all the time.  Where are you getting your information from? You? A worker from Pioneer?  Let's be objective.... Do you write something in the comments tag? Such as style, beat intensity, etc.. Do you know how many people do that?!?!  If you do, how do you pull-up that info that other software writes into the file without screwing-up the rest of the tags in the RB database?   Do you honestly think that people only sort by Key and song name?!  Are you crazy! The comments tag is the no1 go to place to write a secondary style of the song that will be seen in any software. "Reload" that in Rekordbox and you lost all the other info.  All i'm asking is for a checkmark in setting right underneath "write to key tag" and add "write to comments tag" and etc... You could select on/off.  I do programming, this would literally be done in 2 hours max and even-then with lots of coffee break inbetween. Don't tell me people only use RB and don't heavily use the comments field!  The amount of demographics needing this surpasses the two hours required to do it by long shot!

This is why i'm saying that it's a true disconnect in perception or communication. The change is so not time consuming and has the greatest impact.

Hi @Alexis I am new to Rekordbox after a lifetime of vinyl and CDs, could you explain the last comment you made as like you, Im having a nightmare understanding the limitations and workarounds of Rekordbox - I thought it was an organisational tool? From what I have gathered in a short time using it the only thing Rekordbox writes to the MP3 ID3 tag is Key (and you have to tell it to do this in the options)

Cheers :)