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Strange watching CDJ 2000 with Master Tempo!?!

Hi,

 

after the last days it totaly faild playing with MT (Ver. 4.10) I started today a new try. And something very strange happend:

 

I was starting playing with MT and it worked perfectly the first 2 hours. Perfect sound quality, no drifting, accurate quantized loops. Everything fine and perfect and I was happy!

 

After 2 hours of playing suddenly it started:

Sound became worse, mixing was in fact of drifting and sloping or hacking impossible. Loops were totaly out of timing and it was impossible to go on like this. I had done nothing other than before! I mean, what the hell?!? It worked 2 hours and then the player wanna have a break and a beer?!?

Funny thing is, it was the same USB stick, after the problems had started I tried it with the same music, all genres, different pitches, different styles of mixing and handling of the player... all the same!

I'm seroiusly confused about it! Could it be, the player looses in fact of heating by running power??? But my players stand totaly alone and free, so normaly no chance to become warm, unless it heats up into the body. Room temperature is about 20 degree Celcius.

Or is it a software buck???

 

Maybe you can give me an answer!

Thanks, Greetings,

Xador

 

PS: I still wanna know what's up with the DJM 2000. You can delete my posts as often you want! ;-)

Xador

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64 commentaires

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Ok. By the way, I also figured out, it doesn't depend of you are using it directly from the stick or recordbox! Meanwhile I think the problem is the player "hardware" not the software, so it has not enough power, space or what ever to handle it! And with the other DJs I just want to say, I don't believe it is an issue from my units specifically!

Xador 0 votes
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They all wait for an answer, I'm by proxy for them too!

Xador 0 votes
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I just had a bit of a test, and yes that Aly & Fila track really doesn't respond very well to a -3% MT tempo shift.  Anyway, I mixed into another -3% track, then mixed out of that into one which I had to pitch to +3%, so there was now an entire 6% between tracks, and the sound was fine.  It was all melodic, uplifting trance.

As you said before, Jitter is mostly seen in very particular genres - the thing is, I think it's more specific, it seems to only affect a number of tracks within a genre.  Before firmware v4.10, the Jitter was terrible, and apparent in EVERY track.  Now it only seems to rear its head on certain ones, in certain pitch ranges, which have a very certain sound.

I know you won't like this idea, but this is still a major, major improvement.  I'm a trance DJ and I'm happy.  Up until a few weeks ago when v4.10 was released, I didn't have a little red dot in my forum avatar image.  All of the Jitter-reporting crew here are happy too.

The best thing here is to report to Pioneer the issue, and provide track samples so they have the chance to investigate.

Mark90 0 votes
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First, I totally disagree to you. A player about 2000 €/$ per player HAS TO WORK, without any excuses and discussion! And not a bit after nearly 4 years. And secondly, how helpful is it to know, "it works with some tracks"?!? It isn't only this track, I can give you hundred of examples! And how you say, meanwhile I think min 100 people posted this issues over the years. And like in this tread there is no answere from Pioneer. Pulse aked me this treat earlier to give exact response and tell what I do exactly. I've done it till yet but no one is interested! As well as the MASSIVE DJM 2000 issues!!! I'm so sick of this. And there is nothing to excuse any more...

Xador 0 votes
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@Xador, I can understand your anger. But if you said that before pioneer released firm4.10 I would understand. Ok it is not perfect, but it's obvious that with latest firmware master tempo had improvements and  for me it gives hope that in future cdj2000 might get better (and I am not talking just for the MT). 

Dream Treez 0 votes
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You get the basic problem! I wouldn't be so angry if anyone from pioneer would say, there is a problem and they gonna fix it! All I hear from Pioneer is:

"Everything is perfect and fine!" This I've heard since nearly 3 years for the CDJs and 2 years for the DJM 2000!

And I heard this before 4.10 and after! You are right, 4.10 is an improvment, but when you playing an a big PA on a big gig, YOU NEED TO HAVE 100% WORKING EQUIPMENT, not, it is a bit better now. When songs jittering or beats and timings skipping than you cannot go to the audience and say: "Folks, I'm sorry, but my 8k equipment sucks!" And we've also spent a lot of money.

By the way, I've reinstalled 4.10 again on all players and it's not better. You hear the sample I posted earlier.

I hope someone from Pioneer gets it finally now and give an answere about it!

Xador 0 votes
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no need to be a troll oreste, dream treez is just expressing a valid opinion, to accuse him of lying is just small time. i'm sorry you're having problems xador, maybe something didn't update with your firmware update but i can assure you, as one of the vocal critics of the old master tempo, that it is now fully fixed on my decks and also on the decks of everyone else i know (14 units). i understand that this is frustrating to you but you must understand that most of us don't have this problem anymore.

by the way, the cdjs only came out around december 2009 so that's just over 2 years in my book.

Phil 0 votes
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Let's be serious and don't assault each other...

@ Phil 909: I'm definitly not the only one, because I talked to other DJ's the last weeks. All have updated to 4.10 and some of them tried it also twice. The problem is, no one from Pioneer is reacting. I cannot use MT because I'm uncertain if it's going good or not. I would use it, because I normally handle with melodic stuff and here it would be a big benifit to have master tempo! Maybe it is a problem with the player sold in my country, but i cannot imagine.

Xador 0 votes
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Xador, Just an FYI, Some of the guys from Pioneer were away all week and still may be, Thats probably why they have not been around too much lately on the forums other then Gavin

BriChi 0 votes
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Ok. I mostly mix tracks 118pbm up to 127bpm. However I also mix tracks 80bpm up to 140bpm. I never mix a track when pitch is more than +/- 2%. MT is meant to be for tracks that you wanna pitch a lot and you don't want to change the key of the track. But all I know is that when a track is like "for example pitch +/-  5%, the track wont be the same. In some way it is distorted.

Dream Treez 0 votes
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Jep, believe me, I know what I'm talking about...
It happens also @ +/- 1,5%! Thanks...

Xador 0 votes
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@Everyone > I have been following this thread; I will reply soon.

Gavin 0 votes
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I am starting to think that maybe there is a difference between the units that were sold till now. Is it possible that it may have happened? I guess only Pioneer would know that and I am not sure they would like to say there were big lots of faulty ones or with worse components sold.... I really can't understand why some people say their cdjs are working great meanwhile mine sometimes behave like a cheap controller toy or something. 

I red something on this forum about a guy complaining about the number of Pioneer releases. A new product every day but they dont get this one working right. Its like a soupopera that goes on and on with everybody attacking and blaming each other over here BUT people should know nobody would be complaining here if there wasn't a problem going on! I still think I can have that big smile (the day I bought these cdjs) back on my face if they take this as a high priority: to get these cdjs working great for good! So the only thing I can think about is that maybe we really have different units taht were sold around the world. I really mean it: the ones I got have crazy behaviours since the very beggining. And I can feel Xadors pain cause its hard to play with a gear that you dont trust anymore. It feels like standing on a thin line high above the ground not knowing when it can split in two and make you splash your face on the ground with the whole crowd looking at you and laughing...

I think this possiblility of having slighty different components inside the cjds should be considered and questioned too cause I can't figure out why some people have problems and some not. Or maybe something with the updating process?? All possibilities should be considered and analized by WHO SOLD this product. Theres too much confusion and people complaining to just be ignored the way it has been......

Stroboscope 0 votes
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@ Stroboscope: Dude, you got the point!!!
+ The CDJ is not the only product with problems (DJM 2000)!

Xador 0 votes
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Right, firstly...

@Xador:  I'm amazed you picked this time to mention your views on Master Tempo.  v4.10 was released several weeks ago and it was a MASSIVE improvement - MASSIVE MASSIVE improvement - to all the previous versions of the firmware, as far as MT was concerned.  You cannot say that Pioneer have not acknowledged the problem - they have.  There was a note from the engineers detailing the problems with Jitter when using MT a few months ago, and then in mid-January it benefited from extreme improvements.

Secondly, does no-one bother reading my posts?  I just detailed how the track in question here does seem to baffle even the latest version of MT.  So like I said, it seems that certain sounding tracks are still a problem.  I'm not going to repeat myself further.  Constructive engagement is required.

Mark90 0 votes
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@Mark: I don't know if you reading my posts, I wrote, it is an improvement but like you wrote also, not perfectly and not at, sorry to correct you, most of the tracks we've known, mostly melodic stuff but also some Minimal stuff where the beats beginning "to drop" a bit.

So, like my in one of my last post, for me it doesn't fit, becaus how should I know if the track I wanna use is working? And how is it possible to figure out in a live situation? The consequence: Not using Master Tempo, which most of the players form other companies, all of them partly much cheaper, can handle!?!

Xador 0 votes
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I've been away but I have been following every post of this thread and the first thing I have to ask is that everyone please respect their fellow user.  There is nothing worse than watching a thread deteriorate because of users behaving badly.

Second, this thread is about the CDJ-2000 and your specific complaint with the recently updated Master Tempo.  There are other places to discuss the other products and any issues you may have with them, but those issues are independent of this problem and have ZERO bearing on them.

Third, there is one factory making the players.  You will not find that players in Italy are different from those made in the US (outside the rated voltage).  Further to that, units manufactured at different times may have minor running changes to parts because of changes in suppliers, however this would not affect the audio quality.

As @Mark90 points out, the engineers worked VERY hard to drill into the MT algorithms to create the best balance between audio quality and drift for the majority of music.  I have been playing on Pioneer CDJs for 17 years and I can tell you that trance (strings / long pad sounds) has been the genre in which MT was always the most noticeable, even over the various improvements made to MT over that time, and it's simply because our ears are SO PRECISE that we notice even the smallest abnormalities (which is a surprise that so many people like dubstep ... but that's for another post).  I challenge you to find another competing HARDWARE product that handles all varieties of music as well as Pioneer's Master Tempo does.  Software has the upper hand as it has much better processing behind it (duh, your eleventy-billion cycle-per-second CPU vs. a dedicated DSP), so no comparison there.

We have reported back to the engineers that trance DJs are still not happy and perhaps there will be an update made for future hardware, but I have to be honest, I don't think the software can be tweaked that much more to keep everyone happy.

Pulse 0 votes
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@Pulse: Did you hear my sample? You must confirm me that this is a real problem if the players behave like this!?! And that's what I'm talking about and I'm sick of people outside Pioneer telling me, EVERYTHING is fine and perfect and don't have a clue!
Back to topic; I hope and I please you to give the sample to the engineers for explaining and tell them about our problems with MT and tell them, that they please continue to improve it! It is no problem if they want to contact me directly! THX

Xador 0 votes
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Yes I listened to it and as I said above:

 I have been playing on Pioneer CDJs for 17 years and I can tell you that trance (strings / long pad sounds) has been the genre in which MT was always the most noticeable.

I'm not telling you it's "perfect", I'm telling you it's better for MORE music with this last update than it was before.

I also said:

We have reported back to the engineers that trance DJs are still not happy and perhaps there will be an update made for future hardware, but I have to be honest, I don't think the software can be tweaked that much more to keep everyone happy.

Pulse 0 votes
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@Pulse: I'm a bit confused about your statement. You said on 1st Feb. to me:

"Complaining about a problem is fine and dandy if you just want to complain, but if you'd like us to fix the problem, we need as much detail as you can provide!  Thanks!"

So I do, take time and give exactly reviews about and rec a sample. Then I hear nothing from anyone, ok, you were on travel, I don't know.

Then you say me, everything is normal @ Trance? I feel a bit conned. So all the time I investet was in vain. And then you say me, maybe it'll be fixed in future hardware? Do I get it right?

By the way, this probs not only @ Trance, it is also very noticeable for example @ Minimal (Beat dropping, jittering, skipping).

I hope, everyone calms down now and you can give me an answere, if there will come a solutioin for the CDJ 2000. I'm sorry, maybe for some house DJs on smaller PAs or home environment this update fits, but for us it is unfortunately still not useable although it is an improvement.

THX

Xador 0 votes
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New to this Forum.

But It looks like others are having same problem as me. :( CDj 2000s

When mixing getting a movement with the Tempo, this is with the MT on and off. I'll correct it sounds spot on then in Seconds it drifts Drastically.

Finding it very Frustrating Especially when doing a recorded mix. Shame as i had better results with the Pioneers 800s. Purchased The 2000s 3months ago.

Is this problem Being resolved by Pioneer??

 

Al.

Alan Darker 0 votes
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what files are you using for playback? MP3 files? if you do firstly make sure you use CBR (constant bitrate) and do not use VBR..

as long as the music is legally obtained from a trusted source it must be CBR and okay.

There have been many complaints about similar issues. they have been improved over time but might not be a 100 percent absent.

If I was you I would provide as many details as possible about your situation and the exact problem you are having.

They (pioneer) or we might be able to replicate the issue on our cdjs

F!RMWAR3 0 votes
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I download from Beatport, RA, Juno Etc .

Then download into my downloads then drag into I tunes. Ive copied it to Audio cd. Mp3 doesnt give me the wave on my Cdjs Unfortunately.

Can you give me more info on MP3 so i can get the wave effects on display and get the CBR too.

Will I be able to do this through I Tunes ??

Regards Al.

Alan Darker 0 votes
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So from what I understand now you are NOT using Rekordbox and you burn Audio cds from the audio files you use for DJing.

The problem you are having is that mp3 cds will not load (or very slowly load) the waveform of the tracks. (you want to see them instantly)

 

If you want to get over this problem you should use Rekordbox and bridge it with your Itunes (so you can still use your Itunes database) 

For more info on rekordbox check out: http://rekordbox.com/about/about.php?lang=en  and  http://rekordbox.com/index.php?lang=en

If you need any other help feel free to ask! I am sure we all want to help you out here :)

F!RMWAR3 0 votes
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So when I've download my Tracks can i drag into Rekordbox and Burn from Rekordbox? Sorry only Just Purchased these Cdjs. Will this Stop my Problem with Tempo drifting ?

Alan Darker 0 votes
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You don't have to burn CDs.

you can just drop your tracks into Rekordbox. 

You can connect your CDJs with your computer with a switch and a ethernet cable.

So basically, Rekordbox  is the DJ version of Itunes.. It's a managment platform for your music and analyses your tunes so you can instantly see the exact BPM and waveform.

If you decide you don't want to use Rekordbox Link via the ethernet cable, you can make playlists with rekordbox and export them to a USB harddisk or memory stick.

Download it and try it out! you will get the idea once you try it out! also checkout rekordbox.com and the videos there.. they are very usefull!

F!RMWAR3 0 votes
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I have to have Cds as I play out alot. most Bars Clubs have the 800s or 1000s.

I purchased the 2000s for my own @Home :)

Alan Darker 0 votes
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@Alan > Be sure that you are using the proper analysis method (normal or dynamic); if you use dynamic on a straight (4/4) track, it will create warble in the analysis file.  Conversely, using straight on a track with a live drummer will not produce the expected results either.  Verify you have it set correctly and if you still have problems, perhaps check that the track is properly created with a constant beat.

Pulse 0 votes
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