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Dear Pioneer: can we expect pro oriented XDJ products anytime soon?

After todays announcement of DDJ Weeeeeeeegooooooo,

i cannot stop thinking that Pioneer either has huge resources to put out "similar" products (does this Weego thing really bring anything new to pioneer range or new customers appeal that Ergo did not already provided ?) in succession or hugely misaligned management priorities (i honestly fail to see any reasoning behind putting out products without even checking the previous products reception, problems, etc: XDJ Aero and DDJ Wego)

In any case i can only be hopeful, i cannot care less about lower end products, as long as i feel the upper market (mine) is sort of catered for

(hopefully with something a little less exuberant than a full cdj / djm 2000 kit) 

PS: sorry for the rant but i never saw pioneer give so much attention to the lower end range of their dj products, usualy they always had a very defined line of products with a low end series, not 2 or 3 like they seem to be doing with "digital djs" / controller users (exception being the time when cdj 100 and 200 coexisted but even that was not for long), medium range series and hi end, i just hope we can get same treatment someday...

to start some sort of medium range XDJ product like the DDJ S1 / T1 are for the DDJ series would be nice to wash out this dumbing down feeling i get from latest pioneer products and commercials (how come the top brand in pro dj world is seemingly happy putting out toy-ike products after toy-like products for "unconventional" djs, as in non sl1200 / cdj ones)

Nonnus ™

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There is more money to be made in affordable Dj solutions than pro range at the moment so there is your answer,

Business is business.

Nick Hilton 0 votes
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i understand that fine but surely drowning the same end of the market with similar products cant be that wise or profitable as reaching for the different segments, no ?

i mean, is it really that financially interesting to put out 350 usd products when they could be putting out 1500 usd ones and still sell them while the brand is perceived as a quality supplier and not a toy maker ? 

not to mention how it affects brand perception

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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ps: i am sure that with some cdj / djm 2000 components on a higher end XDJ / DDJ product they could ask as high as the price of a cdj 2000 or djm 2000 and still sell them like hot cakes (while still creating some sort of pro standard to be used) 

its all fine to cater for low end of the market, by all means do it, but dont forget the higher end as i am sure it has much more room to grow and for a heavy player like pioneer to establish itself onto 

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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We all hope,it comes Pioneer Dj Controllers with more PRO DJ and better qualitiy but it comes every time the same controllers,Denon,Reloop etc.

What is better on this?Nothing all the same its not a Mixing Station but its good enought for litte Birthday Partys ;)

markoerregger 0 votes
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Given that this controller is half the cost of an ERGO, I'd suggest they're not the same market segment. I don't know why everyone is concerning themselves with Pioneer's business decisions, especially the people who are complaining about the new products and wouldn't buy them.

There are lots of DJs or aspiring DJs who have felt the economic crunch and want to save a few bucks but still want the Pioneer brand, this gives them that opportunity. Development of top-level "pro" controllers will benefit from all the other controllers the company (and other companies) release, but as these entry-level controllers have reduced feature-sets to come in at a lower price point, there is less time needed to ensure that an unchangeable hardware matches the requirements of dynamic software and future growth. (A good example of this is the DDJ-T1; it was released before Traktor2 and the sample decks were a feature of the software.)

So you want a new dedicated Traktor or Itch controller? Have confidence that Pioneer hasn't forgotten that segment. As we always say, Pioneer is always working on "the next thing," whatever it is.

Pulse 0 votes
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"Given that this controller is half the cost of an ERGO, I'd suggest they're not the same market segment."

Hmm, the Ergo was unquestionably entry level product, no ? (i would surely not consider it pro or semi pro as might be the case with the previous ddj)

this weego is also entry level, i think is safe to say :)

so how would you put it any other way than both of them belong to entry level market segment ?

(not trying to be a smart ass at all, i am genuinely curious :) 

"So you want a new dedicated Traktor or Itch controller?"

No no, not at all! as far as i am concerned i am done with dj software and anxious to work exclusively with rekorbox based products,

this is why the thread asks specificaly about a xdj product and not a ddj ;) 

all i want is a non entry level xdj product,

i know they just released the first one but personally speaking i have been waiting for pioneer to take this step for a long time

(even more seriously since the ddj s1/t1 release)

anything closer to the "old" ddj s1/t1 than the ergo would already fit the bill,

if it had cues, bigger display with waveform, ethernet port (i would not even mind not it having wifi but would not complain if it did) and 100 mm pitch fader i would giggle uncontrolably until i got my hands on one (dont even get me heated about something with the cdj 900 / 2000 jogs, just fear how big it would be)

regarding my question, like you i truly believe they are working on the "next thing",

i am just trying to do my part to let them know i belive a higher end xdj product (or even ddj) products are also important :)

once again pulse:

thanks alot for your insight on the topic, impeccable communication skills as usual ;) 

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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This was a good Point...A controller is compatible with rekordbox,and Traktor good idea ;)

markoerregger 0 votes
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My guess is the same like when the CDJ 400 came out.  If had a lot of stuff over the CDJ 1000, (USB, effect, beat splitter, HID controller etc) at the time but was a entry level CDJ.  I think Pioneer play it safe with the new technology like the wifi router, in the lower end products b4 putting it into the flagships... Which is fair enough.

DJ SPiRiTMooN 0 votes
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The ERGO was more of an "affordable" controller, but at the same time, priced higher than most competitor's entry-level units.  Yes, it was Pioneer's "lowest" level controller, but that didn't mean it didn't suit professional or working DJs.  I feel that the WeGO is the least-pro of all due to the feature-set, but that said, I will have no hesitation in taking this as a backup unit or secondary system to any mobile events where the DDJ-S1 is my primary.

The DDJ-AERO is Pioneer's new flagship controller.  The feature set of the AERO and the fact it supports rekordbox is an obvious sign of how Pioneer will lean future products.  The WeGO doesn't have rekordbox support simply because of the market it's targeted at and the extra costs involved in the components required for that kind of communication.

As always, even the release of products not targeted at the "pro" segment of the market will benefit the top-end units.

Pulse 0 votes
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Sorry to hijack a thread and post such a long piece of material - but I find the 'argument' and cries of what about us PRO DJs hilarious when it comes to Pioneer and their focus.  Clearly Pioneer has not lost their focus, if anything they have simply EXPANDED the view.

Here is a little history lesson and do you really believe Pioneer has ignored their 'PRO' DJs?

CDJ-400 - Nov 2007 - Pioneer gets into the Digital Game - Pro market

MEP-7000 - Jan 2008 - Pioneer gets more Digital - Mobile market

<< then they disappear -- I wonder why?? >>

DJM-5000 - Aug 2009 - But then they surface with a MIDI capable mixer both Pro and Mobile markets

CDJ-2000 / CDJ-900 - Sept 2009 - Species unleashed clearly directed at the Pro market and evolution from the CDJ-1000/800s

DJM-2000 - Mar 2010 - The mothership for the species arrives - Pro market

DJM-350 / CDJ-350 - March 2010 - back to the Mobile market and testing the waters of the Bedroom DJ

DJM-850 - Jul 2010 - The porridge dish for the Small/Medium Club DJ market where the Species was to large on the wallet and the 350/400 was just to small in size.

DDJ-T1 and DDJ-S1 - Jan 2011 - Pioneer finally fully embraces the Digital market with the DDJ series controllers - Pro market

DJM-900nexus - Feb 2011 - Pioneer overhauls the flagship mixer (DJM-800) and brings it squarely into the Digital Age - Pro market

DJM-T1 - Mar 2011 - Another Digital market testing - Pro market

<< So for 2 solid years and some teasers before that the Pro market got a lot of love with some Mobile and Bedroom DJ sprinklings >>

DDJ-ERGO - Sept 2011 - The first focus on the Beginner DJ, but still suitable for the Mobile and Bedroom DJ market

CDJ 'Color Me' Tour - Nov 2011 - The CDJ-850 and CDJ-350 get color changes - Small Club DJ market

CDJ 'Color Me' Tour continues - Jan 2012 - The CDJ-2000 and DJM-900nexus get 'white' make-overs - Pro market

DJM-850 - Feb 2012 - To complete the flagship make-over of the DJM-800, the DJM-850 is born

XDJ-AERO - Aug 2012 - Tapping a slightly forgotten market - the one where the laptop is not the primary tool - AND reaching into a new spectrum where Digital is definitely the focus but not in it's traditional sense

<< But wait there is something or someone still missing ?? >>

DDJ-ERGO-K - Aug 2012 - Mobile and Bedroom DJs get a taste of the CDJ 'Color Me' Tour

DDJ-WeGO - Aug 2012 - Pioneer goes after the market they hadn't really broken the mold on yet - clearly looking at the BEGINNER market

 

So does it really look like they have given up attention on the PRO market?  Have they really "lost focus" ?

* Out of a 5 year span

* When they got in the Digital market LATE

* And really didn't get IN until just 3 years ago

* Spending the first 2 years focused on bringing the Analog flagships into the Digital divide

* Then they release 3 products that are 'below PRO' in a 1 year window

And Pioneer has forgotten about it's PRO market and PRO product focus ???

Just food for though .... :)

cstoll 0 votes
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Sorry one mistake -- Jul 2010 -- should be the CDJ-850 not the DJM-850

And @Pulse -- you guys really need an edit option for people to edit their posts if they make a mistake and want to correct them.

Like -- my other mistake --

Just food for thought ....... :)

cstoll 0 votes
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@cstoll: not sure where you got all those "pioneer lost focus on the pro market" cries,

this thread is just about future developments of their new xdj line...

as far as i am concerned they do take pro market very seriously in their djm and cdj products :)

oh, and their dj history started much earlier than 2007, 10 years before on my first ever dj gig another dj was using the pioneer (no pun intended :) cdj + djm 500, in 2000 i bought my first cdj 100...

 

@pulse: i am not so sure the XDJ-Aero (not DDJ) is any sort of flagship product (not with its ergo roots)

i see it as the first product of a new family of products that i suppose will grow with true flagship products,

in any case i fully agree with you in that it is a sign on where pioneer will go with future products (rekorbox)

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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To the contrary, I feel that the AERO is certainly a flagship for Pioneer's controller line in that it's capable of operating with a computer and any MIDI-compatible software, on its own with a USB drive, and to mobile devices by its built-in wireless ability.  It trumps any of the existing controllers and paves the way forward for future controllers in Pioneer's family, thus making it the new flagship.

I know the competitors are scratching their heads trying to figure out how to match or beat the AERO's abilities and features.

Pulse 0 votes
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oh, then we are using the flagship term for different things

its is certainly a revolutionary product / family (as i told you earlier something i was expecting for quite some time, check this: http://serato.com/forum/discussion/524577#new) but as a home dj / beginner oriented product i can never consider it a flagship product

so i guess our divergence resumes to that: you call it flagship whereas i call it revolutionary :)

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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Really don't mean to be confrontational and 'Yes' your topic is about the XDJ-AERO and future products - which is the Digital medium vs. the Analog products of the past.

-- "oh, and their dj history started much earlier than 2007"

Clearly you read right past the first statement about the CDJ-400 being Pioneer's first product into the Digital medium market.  I clearly know that they have been around a lot longer than that in the Analog realm.

-- "i cannot care less about lower end products, as long as i feel the upper market (mine) is sort of catered for"

-- "its all fine to cater for low end of the market, by all means do it, but dont forget the higher end"

-- "is it really that financially interesting to put out 350 usd products when they could be putting out 1500 usd ones and still sell them while the brand is perceived as a quality supplier and not a toy maker ? not to mention how it affects brand perception"

Those kind of statements are the the current 'arguments' and "cries of what about us PRO DJs" as being hilarious when it comes to Pioneer and their focus.  Your post is not the first that I have seen that makes this same claim.  I just felt this forum was a good place to make a comment about it.  And remember it's not the brand that makes the perception - its the perception of those that criticizes it that give it a perception that others start to believe.  Becaue trust me - if you were to put your hands actually on an XDJ-AERO and use it - then you would have a completely different opinion of it being 'beginner' vs 'Pro' regardless of the marketing pitch by the manufacture.

-- " i am not so sure the XDJ-Aero (not DDJ) is any sort of flagship product (not with its ergo roots)"

I would not even classify the XDJ-AERO and ANY of the DDJ controllers into the same category. I specially wouldn't say it got it's roots from the ERGO.

But what I would offer is that the XDJ-AERO is a culmination of Pioneer's own 'digital' history and setting the foundation for things to come from it's PRO market products. 

Think about it --

The displays, platter design, and internal music sharing from a single USB device stems from the MEP-7000 success.

The integration of simple effects come from the CDJ-400 built-in effects and the refinement of those in the DJM-2000 and DJM-900nexus

The slim form factor comes from the DDJ-T1 and DDJ-S1 success - just imagine the 'legs' of those units being cut-off

The success of rekordBox management with the new CDJs lends it's self to being integrated into a Music System like the XDJ-AERO

The natural evolution of integrating smart devices (wireless) into the DJ market that has been going on only makes it more practical to move in that direction with a complete system.

And lastely Pioneer's willingness to push the envelope in bring new concepts to the DJ market.  This only begins laying the foundation and ground work for the exact things you are asking for from Pioneer.

So I would say that the XDJ-AERO 'ROOTS' are straight from the PRO market gear they have produced and market tested over the last 5 years and not the Beginner/Bedroom DJ products of the last 12 months.

Again, hope you don't take offense to my comments.  :)

cstoll 0 votes
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no offense at all ;)

by the way, the statements that lead you to assume there were any 'cries' were mainly in response to the previous post from pionix "business is business"

 

like you i always stated the aero is a new kind of product, hence the xdj family and not ddj (i even corrected pulse about it when he called it ddj-aero)

likewise i dont need to be sold on the product qualities or origins,

back in 2011 i was already waiting for it

(it seems you did not follow the link to serato forums i posted, here it is again: http://serato.com/forum/discussion/524577

regarding your "history" lesson:

it seems you assume pioneer only entered the digital market wih the cdj 400,

this is not true at al,

all cdjs were digital products (as in reading digital music from a digital medium, cd) since the cdj 500 released in 1994

you also seem to believe the cdj 200 was the first one with fx, it wasn't, that was the cdj 100 released in 1998

likewise the pioneer mixer fx did not derive from any cdj fx, the djm 500 had built in fx since its release back in 1996

 

more info can be found at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDJ

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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Just got to love the world of 'texting' and text based dialog :)    I throughly recognize that CDs were the first step in providing audio on a digital medium. My point of reference about the 'Digital' market is computer based integration - built-in audio cards to be used by computer software, manipulating software through MIDI or HID communication protocols, etc.  

As for the built in FX - I stand corrected.  And I did read your Serato link.

cstoll 0 votes
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ah, yes, i see your point with the cdj 400:

it was indeed when computer integration was added for the first time, i had almost forgot about that!

good thing about talks like this is that we always keep learning or remembering something new every day, thanks a lot ;)

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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With me coming from the Pioneer DDJ-Ergo straight to the XDJ-Aero, the Aero feels 10 times a better unit than the Ergo was. It feels like a Pro system, it has much better quality about it. The jog wheels are way better on the Aero. The Aero should be in the Pro league, to me it is a Pro system for sure. The Aero is way ahead of the Ergo in all areas. Like you say it comes from all the parts from the Pro range. I love it to bits :)

Mark Mk 0 votes
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I have now got my xdj aero.
It's been an emotional day as to fund the aero I part exchanged my 2 x cdj1000s and djm800 for it which I have had for roughly 6 years.

I have been waiting for an iPad unit all year since I got my iPad.
The numark idj pro was going to be where I was going.
It was talked about in feb and still isn't released.
Thank god it still isn't, after seeing the press release for the aero the numark system looks really poor and cheap.

The aero is a fantastic machine, I believe that it's for the pro market.
Yes I realise the clubs all have cdj2000s etc but this unit takes you to the pro range.
The quality of the aero is second to none and is exactly what I'd expect from pioneer.

The effects are great, the wireless took a little time to connect to start with but once it has for the 1st time it's seamless.

All my music from my pc and iPad I can stream straight to it, no more burning discs

Ben 0 votes
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@Ben, mess around with the ROLL effect, when engaged it locks the roll sample and keeps it there as long as you have the effect on.  Even with the volume turned down, the roll stays, you can even unplug your flashdrive and the roll will stay there so you can switch out drives!!

@Nonnus have patiences on the "Pro" front, the replacement gear is always being set-up.  Release time is the only real variable, but remember patiences is rewarded...

Jay 0 votes
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Looks like the 6.9.12 will reveal all according to the latest video...

cdjbasile 0 votes
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CDJ-400 - Nov 2007 - Pioneer gets into the Digital Game - Pro market

MEP-7000 - Jan 2008 - Pioneer gets more Digital - Mobile market

<< then they disappear -- I wonder why?? >>

DJM-5000 - Aug 2009 - But then they surface with a MIDI capable mixer both Pro and Mobile markets

CDJ-2000 / CDJ-900 - Sept 2009 - Species unleashed clearly directed at the Pro market and evolution from the CDJ-1000/800s

 


XDJ-AERO - Aug 2012 - Tapping a slightly forgotten market - the one where the laptop is not the primary tool - AND reaching into a new spectrum where Digital is definitely the focus but not in it's traditional sense

<< But wait there is something or someone still missing ?? >>

DDJ-ERGO-K - Aug 2012 - Mobile and Bedroom DJs get a taste of the CDJ 'Color Me' Tour

DDJ-WeGO - Aug 2012 - Pioneer goes after the market they hadn't really broken the mold on yet - clearly looking at the BEGINNER market

 

Doesn't this look similar? The XDJ-Aero introduced a new technology E.G. Wifi.

In the video they mention effects , could be on the player if it's a player like the CDJ-400.

If not it's a DJM with a wireless router to stream wireless data to your CDJ-2000.

Sammy 0 votes
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After getting back from playing a week long festival in a seriously harsh environment for my 2000's, I'm pretty much aligned with the original sentiment for this thread:  A pro-grade self-contained media player would greatly benefit my work in the festival circuit.  Out of the nine gigs I played there, only two stages had captive 2000's where I could simply rock a thumb drive.  The rest of the time I was schlepping my 'golden' 2k's in custom bags with a bike trailer, and doing the equipment shuffle each set.  Having a single box that replicated the functionality of a pair of 2k's (quality displays, 100mm pitch controls, and loop/hot cue memory, AIFF support and high quality mix output) would make my life not only easier but easier for the folks before/after me as well as the stage/tech manager.  I'd prefer the device be totally stand-alone...think one or two thumb-drive sockets...I don't give a rat about playing tracks off my iphone or ipad or droid or any other device that is going to take a crap right in the middle of a set.  Remember Occam's Razor:  simpler is better.

Cost is important, but considering I'm endangering almost $4k worth of gear each gig, it's not really about cost, but having an absolutely reliable tool in the toolbox with excellent sound quality, portability, and functionality.

A lot of booths are pretty crowded, too.  Lots of folks were having issues with the classic combo of laptop, MPC, audio interface fitting and then I roll in with a pair of full size CDJs (but guess who's set went off without a hangup or I/O error....this guy!) so this should give you an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish.  FWIW, I witnessed numerous sets with glitching CDs, laptops that hung, I/O devices that didn't, and every hiccup had a huge impact on the audience.

Back to cost, if the thing were less than or equal to a 2k in cost, but did the work of two plus a mixer, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as my festival rig, and the 2k's would be used for the studio or for hire events as part of the PA.

Whatever Pioneer chooses to do, Please please please make the bags for these things in the form of a backpack!

 

my $0.02...

pope 0 votes
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^this, ^this and ^this

@pope: man, your $0.02 are worth so much more than than ;) 

@djay: thanks a lot for the "motivation", i will practice my zen in the meanwhile :)

Nonnus ™ 0 votes
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Hi

As a DJ with years and years of experience I've used all sorts of gear and recently got an Aero for using at small gigs.  I've got CDJ2000s for bigger events.

Playing with the Aero has given me so much enjoyment which has spilled over into my sets. I don't need to carry my expensive Macbook Pro which is a relief.  I don't need to have a complicated life.  Two decks are great for these sort of gigs.   I've exported all my tracks from rekordbox onto a hard drive, with another for backup and there I go.  I know it doesn't have a portfolio of fx like my main mixer, but the fx it has work great, sound great and are so easy to be creative with.

It also works great with Traktor if I want to go that way.

A lot of people regard it as a pro level product, as I do, because it is very well made, very reliable and could be used night after night after night for all sorts of gigs. 

It's not a controllerist product, but my audiences don't want that,  like millions of other audiences around the world.

I also have a DDJ T1 which is great too, but the Aero is tremendous and the DDJ t1 will be hitting ebay soon. 

 

 

 

 

 

djsince74 0 votes
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Oh, I wanted to add that I've used/owned a few other 'all in one' dual media player products from two other vendors (you can probably figure out who, folks at the factory can PM me for specific usability details if desired, I did not sign an EULA or NDA related to them) but my summary of the experience is as follows:

The bad:

Supports only MP3 (or WAV w/o tagging...yuck!)  I would never play MP3 out on a big system unless it was that one VIP track someone sent me just in time.

MIDI-classic resolution on the controls, especially noticeable on the pitch fader and the platters.

Horrible low-rez displays.  Track profiles did not give a good indication of breakdowns.  Inability to set or show personal cue flags in the displays.

Inaccurate BPM readings, even with extensive track pre-processing.

Distorted or noisy signal chains, with questionable EQ performance curves.

"Thwacky" Plastic feel.

The good:

One box, reasonably reliable (e.g. did not lock up, they seem to be linux-based,) and they're a plug and go setup. 

@djsince74:  "not a controllerist product" comment was well received;  I think one can do decent controllerist work on an Aero (the 2k's work nicely, too) but if you go down that rat hole, the next logical step is a phrase sampler package (of which there is one dominate in this industry) and there you're talking lugging a laptop, controller, interface, associated wall-warts and we're back to the performance reliability issues.  I'd like to scratch, drop hot cues, and play tracks.  And if those tracks have some serious production work by your's truly, I'll have done that in the studio thank you very much!  

pope 0 votes
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@djsince74 and @pope > Great feedback, many thanks!

Gavin 0 votes
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