Loop Move Issue

Please could the engineers fix the problem of slip/scratching within a loop, as this also goes out of time.

thanks

@cpoynter > Does this happen with quantize ON?

@Dean > If you're scratching in a loop, you are adjust the timing manually.  The solution would be for you to start and release the scratch in proper time ;)

Hey Mark, yes, I do have quantize turned on. The only time I can get it to stay sync'd is if I move it exactly in time with the downbeat of the phrase. So for example if it's an 8 bar loop it would have to go 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - MOVE - 2 - 3 - 4 (etc). But even then, it's kind of weird, if I'm not PERFECTLY in time, it'll go out of sync.

Ideally, I would be able to just move my 8 bar loop whenever I want in the phrase, and it would pick up, or "remember" where it's supposed to be, if that makes sense? I'm coming from Traktor and that's how it worked.

I can do a video if it would help to show you what I mean.

@cpoynter > I understand and I completely agree with you.  Quantizing should most certainly apply to Loop Move.  I'm assuming this was unintentionally overlooked.  A video of your issue would certainly help the engineers understand the problem.  You can post it on YouTube as an unlisted video so it won't go public and post the link here.  What hardware are you using? Have you tried updating the firmware?

@mark > Okay I've put it onto YouTube. I am using the DDJ-RZ with the latest firmware. It's definitely a software issue.

Here's the video: https://youtu.be/j72FzWbzNpY. You'll notice a couple issues. The first one is that when I use the Loop Move button to go forward, the playhead doesn't even stay with the loop, haha! Then when I move the loop backwards, it goes out of sync. This doesn't always happen either, which is kind of weird. But then the other problem is that even if it stays in sync, the playhead doesn't stick to the beat it was on when I engaged "Loop Move". It always just goes back to beat 1 of the loop. Does that make sense?

Here's another video of the same thing in Traktor: https://youtu.be/K0TSIpvWfxo. No matter where I move the loop, it stays perfectly synced. Also, the playhead "knows" where it's supposed to be. So if I move the loop on beat 3 (for example) it picks up on beat 3 of the new loop.

@cpoynter > Thanks for the video.  Just to be clear, at :27 and :30 you pressed one of the backward beat jump buttons, correct?  Also, please tell me what your quantize beat value is set to.  I'd like for you to set it to 1 (see below) and try to duplicate the problem. Thanks.

@mark > That is correct, at :27 and :30 I pressed one of the backward beat jump buttons. My quantize value was set to 1/4 when I made that video. I just tried changing it to 1, as well as all the other values, and the same problem occurs. I also tried different genres of music.

Ok.  First and foremost, 4.0.7 was released today.  Please visit rekordbox.com to download it and retest this.  If the problem remains, there is one last thing I'd like you to try before we send this to the engineers.  Please try to replicate this problem WITHOUT the DDJ-RZ connected.  Use just your mouse.  If the problem still exists then we know it's the software.  If not, the RZ may be the issue.  Thanks.

Done and done. It's definitely a software issue.

Thanks for helping me pinpoint the cause of the issue.  I will open a support ticket and update you here as soon as I hear anything.

Have you opened the ticket with that issue Mark?

It has been a while and still moving the loop while second track is playing is making it out of sync.

Any suggestions?

It was marked as being fixed in a future update, but I've asked them to confirm.

Hello Lukas,

This issue was fixed in rekordbox 4.2.1 more than two years ago.
[FIXED]
-When moving a loop forwards or backwards, it went out of sync even with QUANTIZE and SYNC on.

Please update rekordbox to the latest and check if the same issue occurs or not.

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

Hello Keiko,

Thank you for the reply,

Would you kindly investigate how to handle changing the loop size which effects in synchronization issues between looped track and second track?

As for now if you will change the loop from 8 to 4 it will most surely will not be beat matched.

Hello Lukas,

Before investigating the loop size change issues, the engineers would like to make sure which rekordbox version you used when you were not able to be beat matched.

Did you update rekordbox to the latest version?

If not yet, please update and check if you still have the same issues on it.

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

Hi Keiko,

I am using Rekordbox 5.4.2

Changing the length of loop is not an issue anymore thanks. Moving the loop causes immediate beat desync (sync is lost the second I move the loop).

Please advise.

Best,

Lukas

Hello Lukas,

Thank you for your reply. So, you have an issue when moving the loop. 
・ Do you move the loop using "SHIFT+1/2X" or "SHIFT+2X" while playing the a loop?  
・ Is the Loop IN/OUT point on the grid? 
・ Is Quantize enabled? 

Or, would you like to use BEAT JUMP mode instead of LOOP MOVE for shifting a loop?
If so, please try this.

Please select BEAT JUMP mode in rekordbox as shown below.

Please read page 137 of the rekordbox manual from the link below.

https://rekordbox.com/_app/files/img/rekordbox5.4.0_manual_EN.pdf

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

Hi, Keiko

Thank you for the reply and the suggestion.

1. Do you move the loop using "SHIFT+1/2X" or "SHIFT+2X" while playing the a loop?
2. Is the Loop IN/OUT point on the grid?
3. Is Quantize enabled?

1. Yes, and I would prefer to do it this way mainly because I may sample something or use pads for something different.

2. Yes it is. Because I set my loops using fixed 4, 8, 16 values and a loop button not a separate loop IN and Out manual setting.

3. Yes. Quantize is enabled.

Hi Lukas,

Don't you want to use the BEAT JUMP feature to shift the loop position?

Have you tried it? 

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

Hi Keiko,

I will try to use the BEAT JUMP but i do not wan't to use it ultimately because I prefer to have my pads ready to do something else during looping sounds ;)

I would prefer to use dedicated loop oriented buttons to do so.

Hello Lukas,

Unfortunately, LOOP MOVE does not work like BEAT JUMP currently. 
The engineers would like to investigate the possibility of improvement of the LOOP MOVE feature. In order to further investigate your issue, will you please provide us with the information below? 

・ Settings file
・ Video taken when "moving the loop causes immediate beat desync (sync is lost the second I move the loop)."
・ Track files used in the above video  

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ

Hi Keiko,

Everything is in the folder here

I wasn't able to record the screen and sound on the same time. OSX limitations i guess.

Let me know if I can help you more.

Hello Lukas,

Thank you very much for reporting this issue. 

I had to delete my previous message because wrong information was included. 

You can avoid the issue of losing beat sync when you use the Loop Move feature.  If you want to avoid the issue you experienced, please select "1" in the "Loop Sampler (Loop)" from Preferences > Controller > Other tab > Quantize > Type as shown below.

You will be able to use the Loop Move without worrying that loop may not be beat synced.

Sorry, the image cannot be attached here for some reason. For now, please follow the above steps and try using the Loop Move.

Thanks,

CRM, Pioneer DJ 

Hi Keiko,

It helped. Thank you. Close the issue please.

Best,

Lukas