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XDJ-RX Fine Jog Tempo Adjustments

I've just made the jump from Traktor (using an S4) to Pioneer hardware, and I've noticed that you cannot fine-adjust the tempo using the jog wheel to get two tracks exactly in phase.

Please try understand what I am saying here: Let's say for the sake of simplicity that I load the same track into both decks and set them to 0.00% pitch. Now I want to beat match the second deck to the first (without using sync). What I find is that if the phase is off very slightly (I'm talking sub 50 millisecond range), the jog wheels do not respond to slow rotations in order to pull the tracks into phase.

Unlike with Traktor hardware, it seems that there is a "minimum acceleration" required for the jogs to detect a tempo bend. With my S4, I could rotate the jogs however slowly I desired, and the track would respond accordingly -- by microscopically adjusting its phase over time.

I've noticed this same behaviour with club units such as the CDJ2000. Unless I use a certain speed or acceleration to bump the jogs, nothing is detected - even if I slowly make multiple full rotations of the platter, the two tracks will remain the same amount out of phase.

This is rather annoying since to correct for the small phase offset, I usually end up over-correcting (even with the minimum amount of force I can physically apply to get some detection). I end up over-correcting backwards and forwards until by chance the bend lands the tracks in phase.

Is this a design choice by Pioneer? A hardware limitation? Is there really no way to fine-adjust by slowing rotating the jogs? Please, before you respond, confirm this for yourself. The speeds I'm talking about are about 1 rotation per 5 seconds.

Matthew Niemann

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From what I'm reading here it seems like you're saying that slight jog turns do nothing and major jog turns do something.  Maybe your jog turns should be a bit more slight?  This is the first time I'm hearing about any issue like this.

Mark Gallo
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I hate to say it, but that is called DJing. Traktor and Serato help keep the two tracks in time for their users, whereas Pioneer equipment doesn't.

You'll notice Pioneer DJs using headphones a lot more than laptop djs running software because of this very reason. 

This keeps you forever listening to what you are outputting to ensure the tracks are beat matched. 

A tiny rotation does speed up the track, i have my xdi-rx in front of me, 2000s at home which both adjust with a small push...

Just update the firmware and see if that helps your issue...

Marxman (AUS) 0 votes
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To be honest Steve, this is nothing to do with DJing itself. It may as well be a jog dial to help align a surveyor's theodolite; something which requires fine tuning. The issue here is that small rotations are ignored. This should also have nothing to do with "keeping two tracks in time" -- I'm talking about single players here, not a system.

You are saying that a tiny rotation does speed up the track? Then you are rotating too fast. How you are running this experiment? Please try rotate the dial 360 degrees in the time of no less than 6 seconds. You should find that at this speed, there is no phase adjustment in the track.

If you are still unable to reproduce this issue, I will try upload a video of it occurring.

I am using the latest firmware. I am not imagining this happening either, as I have confirmed on multiple different models.

Matthew Niemann 1 vote
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Well given that I've been using pioneer gear for over 10 years and you've only just started, I guess I know nothing. It has everything to do with DJing, laptop Djs have so many problems coming into the real world because they realise just how much the software does for them. Pushing the platter does adjust the speed of the track, the bigger the push, the greater the adjustment, and you guessed it, the smaller the push the smaller the adjustment. If you did 50 tiny pushes it does adjust, but by tiny amounts.

Maybe start off using the sync function until you get the hang of the controller, then try it by ear. Best of luck and welcome to the real world ;)

Marxman (AUS) -2 votes
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No one else? Unfortunately Steve has misunderstood the issue I'm experiencing. Please be aware that I have been using Pioneer CDJs for over 5 years now in addition to controllers at home (of which I have been using Traktor without sync since 2010), so please pay no regard to his comments. As an electrical and computer engineer (the exact kind of people who develop the firmware for these types of electronics), I am definitely not pulling this out of my arse or seeing this as a lack of DJing experience.

Here's a more detailed list steps to reproduce.

  1. Load two tracks with the same tempo into two players
  2. Set both player's tempo to 0.00%
  3. Ensure Sync mode is OFF
  4. Begin playback of both players, and nudge Player 1 so that it is almost in-phase with Player 2 (such that you hear the kick drums slightly stuttered on the master)
  5. Instead of using a nudge to bring the tracks into phase, slowly rotate the jog dial of Player 1 to try "fine-tune" the relative phase offset
  6. Observe that no matter how many rotations are performed, the relative phase offset between the two players remains the same.

 

If the phase changes, then you are rotating the jog dial too quickly to reproduce the issue. Ensure that you are not rotating the jog dial faster than 360 degrees within 6 seconds.

Matthew Niemann 1 vote
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i know what you mean. It's one reason why I selled my xdj rx and looking for cdjs with jog wheel sensitive adjustment knob because it is very annoying when the two tracks are just a little bit off and you simply want to make one little adjustment.

Before the xdj rx I owned the DDJ SX with that knob so I was wondering that the flag ship controller doesn't have it.

Megantic 1 vote
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This is a problem with all Pioneer jog wheels that I've encountered since the CDJ-1000 on.  There is a a jog bend dead zone.  I hate it.  Pioneer is the only company that does this. I don't know if it is something that can be eliminated in the firmware or not.  It is a completely counter-intuitive feature that prevents their units from feeling natural and instinctive.

Reticuli 0 votes
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Aren't you supposed to flick the wheel forwards or back to edge it into phase? Your hand doesn't stay on the edge. It's a nudge. The wheel is emulating the actions you do on a turntable.

Teles 0 votes
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Bryan, with rate-based jog bend (Pioneer, Denon, Numark, Gemini, new Reloop) you can do it continuously or in nudges.  Time-based jog bend (Vestax, American Audio, old Reloops, Stanton, Omnitronic, etc) means you can really only do it in nudges without it ramping up or down.  This has nothing to do with what we're talking about, though, as regardless of whether it's continuous or brief nudging, the dead zone means there is a rate that below which nothing happens.

Reticuli 0 votes
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I asked about this if there was away to adjust the pitch bend sensitivity on the jog wheels of the ddj-rx.

 

I've used loads of pioneer kit and the jog wheels are far better when it comes to pitch bending.

 

 

Colin Bell 0 votes
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Is this something that could be developed for the software?

Colin Bell 0 votes
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I'm also curious if the jog bend dead zone on Pioneers is something mechanical or in the firmware of their players.

Reticuli 0 votes
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@Colin > No, sorry.

@Reticuli > This has been previously discussed that the amount of rotation required to "activate" the bend is such that anything less won't be misinterpreted as a bend when it was not meant to be.

Pulse -1 votes
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@ Pulse.  If I accidentally push any other brand's jog wheel on the side or a vinyl record's edge while playing and a blend slightly bends out of phase accidentally, I just nudge it back.  I don't see why such minor mishaps are reason enough to prevent natural, intuitive, fine adjustments altogether.  It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  Is this a mechanical attribute on the CDJ900/CDJ2000/XDJ1000 series or in the firmware?  It's clearly part of the firmware on the XDJ700 and XDJ-RX, but I'm curious if it being a settings option is possible on the former mentioned units with mechanical jog.

Reticuli 0 votes
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