Have a feature request or suggestion? Post your idea here!

Publication

7 abonnés S’abonner
0
Avatar

DDJ-1000 plays vinyl with too much gain

I have noticed when recording my sets that my vinyl does not sound as crisp as it used to when I used a DJM-750mk2.  I run all levels in amber and rarely touch the red, definitely never clip.  To my ear the vinyl sounds compressed and when looking back at the waveform of my recordings the waveform is maxed out/full and clips off the top and bottom of the spectrum.

Despite running levels in the yellow per channel and master out in green, what can be driving the vinyl played through PLX-1000 to run so much gain.  Am I missing a gain setting somewhere?

I never had this issue with the DJM 750mk2, nor is it an issue with MP3's  through the DDJ-1000, it's plays MP3's with the same crisp sound I've come to expect

Grant Burnett Avec réponse

Commentaire officiel

Avatar

As explained here...

To be perfectly honest, they're not intended for vinyl playback. The phono inputs are primarily for DVS timecode input. I know you're thinking "but what's the difference?" and the answer to that is the quality doesn't need to be as high if it's just for DVS input. All things considered, if you look at what's included on the unit for the cost, they packed a LOT in there. It's not a DJM-quality mixer -- a single 4-channel DJM is more than the cost of the entire DDJ-1000, so obviously there will be places that don't shine as brightly, and in this case, it's the phono inputs.

My recommendation would be to source an external RIAA phono pre-amp and place that between your turntable and the line input.

Pulse
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien

Vous devez vous connecter pour laisser un commentaire.

32 commentaires

0
Avatar

Reading your story I would say that the DDJ-1000 has a different internal Phono amp than the DJM-750MK2. Did you connect the PLX-1000 grounding wire on to the SIGNAL GND screw of the DDJ-1000?

Although it's still strange that your wave forms are maxed out/full, this looks like a gain problem, and may be also the cause that your vinyl does not sound that crisp...

Are you using Rekordbox to record your vinyl sets? Maybe there are some software settings available which can compromise your gain inputs towards recording.

I've got a DDJ-1000 my self but did not connect my SL1200's on to it yet. Otherwise I would be able to give you my experiences in this case. Maybe other DDJ-1000 users.

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Theo

Yeah all ground wires etc as screwed in, using rekordbox to record sets.  Again record level in rekordbox lives in the yellow and rarely touches into the red, I like to leave headroom for when FX's are applied.  My hunch is a gain setting somewhere in the software but I've tried to locate the issue but no success.

I did think it could be due to the different soundcards between the two products but them I would imagine MP3 playback to also not be crisp, but this is not the case.

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Different soundcards ok, but one with perfect crisp sound, and another with high gain and less good sound, that makes a big difference. Especially when both are Pioneer.

Searching this 'forum' I found some more topics regarding phono inputs and their quality. Pioneer admits that they use different quality phono amps in their mixers and controllers. Understandible, every price has it's quality. But this should not be the reason that you get over gained and low quality sound from vinyl with a $1.200,00 DDJ-1000.

Let's hope some of the Pioneer mod's jump in to this topic, to help you out further.

 

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

I am experiencing this too. Just posted about this. Phono quality is really bad. I could never use any vinyl for a mix or gig with the quality my DDJ 1000 outputs on its phono stages. I’m contemplating putting in a request to have the controller returned or replaced. It really feels like they loaded the feature on the controller with no care, so they could lure customers. Do it well or leave it off, is my advice. I’m not happy!

Chris Weeks 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Pulse

I've now tried three different external RIAA phono preamps and it's not helping, it actually makes the sound quality worse, can you have multiple preamps on one phono source?  Does Pioneer recommend a specific preamp for this setup.

Thanks

Grant

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

also I've double checked and the Sure M44-7 cartridge I'm running are MM which is what all three preamps are for, not MC

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

cracked it, the DDJ needs to be switched to Line not Phono to bypass the internal preamps.  Quick sound check of the same song vinyl vs 320k MP3 and can't tell the difference.

Glad I found a solution but have to say disappointed Pioneer thought sound quality of a media format was an acceptable area to cut costs on.

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Thanks for sharing with us.

On the other hand, I still find it a bit unfair that DDJ-1000 owners paid $1.200,00 for a controller with Phono inputs which are not ment to be used for analogue playback.

If this is a clear decision of Pioneer, then they should mention this also clear in the specs, that the 2 phono inputs are for digital usage only. 

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Grant. I have just bought a 1210 mk2 to play my old vinyl and got pointed to this forum. Did you get a pre-amp which solved the issue as per you post? If so which one? I am annoyed as thought that the DDJ1000 would able to handle vinyl and DVS on a seperate turntable. Thinking now of selling my DDJ and looking at what Denon has to offer instead!

nicholas shore 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07289S6KT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

That's what I went for on the recommendation of a audiophile friend, works good from an audio point of view and are small enough that they are easy enough to squeeze in.  Can also change the valves to customize the sound, I'm still playing with this part. Only downside is the power cables aren't long.

Same as you I'm disappointed in Pioneer and am looking to change to a Dennon standalone setup this year, especially with their price drops 

 

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Grand Burnett, the pre-amp you suggest looks ok, but you might pass the goal with this one. Is n't this tube pre-amp a bit to High-End and fragile for DJ usage?

I should take a simple $30,00-$40,00 solid state pre-amp of good quality from Amazon. As I said, it's for DJ usage, so quality is mandatory, but you don't need real High-End hardware.

Ps. Don't forget to set your channel input on Line instead of Phono when you use a pre-amp.

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

possibly but I don't use my DDJ 1000 out in a club environment, it's for home use and casual gigs and even then I just stick to digital.  If I'm playing vinyl out then I just take my records and carts and play on the local setup.

I went with the valves after looking at Master Sounds Radius R4V and wondering if I could recreate the valve warmth sound  

Grant Burnett 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Grant does the dvs signal work through the valve pre amp into line ok still? or would i need to keep unplugging and switching line to phono just to play dvs??

im looking to add a couple of these to my home set up to get that nostalgia sound when playing regular wax but the sound on the ddj1000 is ghastly bad.

so does dvs signal get compromised through a tube or can i simply mix normal and dvs without unplugging stuff?

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

@Ravinstomper > Unless your turntable has a line output, you need to use the phono input on the DDJ-1000.

Pulse 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

hey pulse sorry but you have miss understood my question to Grant.

im asking does the timecode tone/signal get compromised when passing through the tube/valve preamp. does it filter out the frequencies needed and become delayed or unstable? if so then yes i would need to keep pulling out cables and switching line back to phono just to play dvs mode :[

simply i would like to know if i can feed the dvs signal into a tube hassle free.

i know i can feed it into a thirdparty preamp no problem as i have a couple connected up already. i wish to swap these out for something a little more special like a quality tube.

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

There are no tubes or valves in this thing -- just a regular ol' solid-state RIAA pre-amplifier.

Pulse 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

I think Ravinstomper means, if he can use a better quality tube phone amp instead of a soldi state phono amp. If this makes any sence using DVS time code vinyl.

Both a solid state or tube phone amp do the same, they increase the phono audio signal. So I should say it doesn't matter which amp you use. Actually it's a bit over the top to use a tube phono amp to amplify a digital signal. You won't experience any quality improvement like you would with a analogue phono signal.

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Thanks Theo yes im referring the to link Grant provided and he mentions replacing the valves in his post.

Pulse im unsure of what you think im questioning mate lol

im sure the valve pre amp will be ok but i dont want to spend money to find it struggles to receive the tone signal for dvs.

im wanting to play regular vinyl through the vales but still would like to revert to dvs when i wanted with ease. im totally understanding i wont get the valve sound when playing dvs as the sound is then channelled via the sound card to my amp.

its possible to look at putting a rack mount valve stereo pre amp / compressor after the ddj1000 and between the Amp and keep my 'art dj pre ii' pre amps from my turntables to the ddj1000 line in. get a tube sound through out but these are very expensive so big saving on my wallet if i could use the one shown in the link between tt and ddj1000.

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

I don't see why it would. Have you ever listened to a tube-amp and thought "Hmm, that sounds muddy" ??? Probably not. "Muddy" is how one might describe a lack of higher frequency sounds. Generally, tube-amps are described as providing "warmth," which is detected by our ears as an increase in the mid-low frequencies, not "muddy", by reducing the range that the timecode signal operates. 

Pulse 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Hi Pulse, in my opinion putting a tube phono amp between a turntable and the DDJ-1000, is like a Volkswagen with Lamborgini rims. It looks nice but doesn’t add any advantages.

With all the respect for a DDJ-1000 controller, it’s just not fitted with the DJM-900 internals. Personally I would use a simple and straight solid state phono amp towards the line ins.

if the time code signal from vinyl is still usable in a turntable - phono amp - line in setup, I can’t say, but I’ll guess this will work. DVS can already work with the low quality Phono-In signal from the DDJ-1000, it’s even ment to used for this option (only).

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

@Theo > I can't agree more. If you're wanting to get hi-fi audio from a DDJ-1000, you're using a weak link. There are far better (and much more expensive) options if you're going so far as to want a tube amp for your phono inputs because quality is a concern.

Pulse 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

ok i may just keep my current setup and keep spinning my ecords and dvs via the additional third party pre amps as its all well and good.

would have been nice to go down this path and to hear my vinyls "come alive" via a valve.

but i guess the signal chain is to long and will be lost.

turntable, preamp, ddj1000, graphic EQ, main amp, speakers.

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Ravinstomper, feel calmed by the knowlegde that 80% of the house vinyl didn't get a high-end mastering, and/or isn't that pressed well. There often just not high-end vinyl pressings.

Personally I think a tube amp wouldn't add any extra's in the link between your turntables and DDJ-1000 controller. A simple and straight solid state pre-amp will do perfect, and won't add or remove any parts from the audiospectrum.

 

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

Any chance the phono input improved on the newly released SRT?

Avatar
As explained here...

To be perfectly honest, they're not intended for vinyl playback. The phono inputs are primarily for DVS timecode input. I know you're thinking "but what's the difference?" and the answer to that is the quality doesn't need to be as high if it's just for DVS input. All things considered, if you look at what's included on the unit for the cost, they packed a LOT in there. It's not a DJM-quality mixer -- a single 4-channel DJM is more than the cost of the entire DDJ-1000, so obviously there will be places that don't shine as brightly, and in this case, it's the phono inputs.

My recommendation would be to source an external RIAA phono pre-amp and place that between your turntable and the line input.

VinylMasta 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

To be honest I think that Pioneer DJ is not completely free of guild.

Ofcourse every well thinking person should realise that it's not possible to put a complete Nexus hardware setup in a DDJ-1000 for the price of half a CDJ-2000NXS.

On the other hand, Pioneer maybe should've change the name "Phono In" in to "DVS In". That would be aswell more clear, as more fair towards the good believing customer.

Next to this I find the output quality of the DDJ-1000 also not to good. Again I understand that you can't expect DJM-900 quality from a controller costing half the price, but there are similair priced Pioneer DJ controllers with better audio quality on their outputs.

These are my thoughts, and the DJ controller market is though to survive, but a well and honest informed customer is better than a dissapointed customer.

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

well put Theo. dvs input would be far less deceiving to the user.

And yes this was the first thing i thought when they released the srt model. "new phono or same"

im not going to get the srt as i believe rekordbox is much better and functions how i want, but come on pioneerdj, the phono stage is an inexpensive module! so why even cut on its quality. even much older, cheaper, different brand named units have a decent phono inputs ....this is old tech and surly the quality of the thing doesn't need to be compromised.

ive ended up having 2 external phono to line convertors hooked up making my setup loaded with cables. just like having a dvs box again.... makes no sence but is needed for playing vinyl.
what dj would use dvs and not play vinyl too? dvs via cdj would be completely pointless on the ddj1000.

we are not all asking for nxs guts but you should be clear on what you have put inside and with your marketing tactics.

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

What I personally think is that the DDJ-1000SRT version is only more- or 100% out of the box compatible with Serato software. I don't expect any Serato sound cards inside like the DJM-900SRT has.

But maybe I'm completely wrong, and this SRT upgrade has massive improvements...

Theo 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

So it this a fix by putting an amp between the phono input? Does it really improve the sound a bit. Not looking for top of the line sound system, but an improved sound.

VinylMasta 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien
0
Avatar

the srt price tag is 300 more? marketing ploy maybe as it in high demand but lacks the full features like rekordbox has with it.

@ vinylmasta. yes you would need two pre amps from each deck unless your turntables support line out switches on their rear. to achieve crystal clean vinyl play back.

i have 2 ART DJPre ii Pre Amps but ive found a behringer beat 800 bpm. it has top preamps and shows bpm read out but its faulty :(

my other choice was to put a normal mixer in with my decks and feed the signal via master out and headphone to channels 3 &4 on the ddj1000 when i wanted to mix dvs. this is just a theory.

Ravinstomper 0 votes
Actions pour les commentaires Permalien