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File Management

I would like to be able to rename or move a file from within rekordbox. Or to be able to rename outside rekordbox and then point rekordbox to the new file while keeping analysis and cue points from the original files. I dj with jungle/breakbeats and analyzing and setting grids tages a lot of time very often here.

Following discussions here, typically Pioneer would respond: Explain why you need this. We dont understand. Ill try

Sometimes you want your file names and file system tidy, like back in the days with a record case.

Sometimes you want to work in a folder /browser/file management system and not in rekordbox. Maybe when youre just organizing stuff and dont want to open the program or when you come to a radio station, you bring your stick, and suddenly there is a deneon system, not a pioneer.

Pioneer  probably doesnt care about this, but I think it will pay off for pioneer if working with rekordbox makes life easier in general for the user.

thegreenman Avec réponse

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@Heiner > I'm the kind of DJ who does all that "tidying" before I import it to my DJ software. I edit my tags, run any other processing (eg. MiK, Platinum Notes), put the files in the appropriate folders, then import. Anything done within the software after import would be to add tags, sort into playlists, etc. - the physical file doesn't need to move.

If you're the kind of DJ who moves his files AFTER the import, the link to that file will be broken in the database. It need to know where and how it moved in order to play it. Think of it this way -- walk into a library (you know, the kind with physical books) and pull any book off the shelf, move it anywhere else in the library, and don't tell anyone. That's basically what you've done when you move a file on your hard drive. The book still exists in the library, nobody has checked it out and removed it, the computer listing still shows it as available, but unless someone went searching the shelves, there's no way it would be found.

You could use the relocate missing files function, but this is mostly for being able to relocate moved files, not renamed files. Per the library analogy, this would be akin to moving an entire shelf of books to elsewhere in the library. That would be easy to find, and once you have found it, you can update the location for ALL books on that shelf.

But if you've done more than move the books, say you created a new dust-jacket for it, nobody would know WHAT they're looking for. If you did that more than once, and again, didn't keep all those books together, it's going to take a LOT longer for anyone to find them, and re-catalog them all.

Our engineers do care about this, but to be perfectly blunt, this seems like a poor practice in file management and some small changes to your workflow would be more effective in reducing the amount of effort anyone needs to make.

Oh, and regarding taking your drive with you ... if you keep your music ON that external drive (as the source), then you export to the drive, it doesn't make duplicates - it points the export database to those files, so you could feasibly maintain a folder structure and not worry about how rekordbox creates its ridiculous export folders, and do what you do, as you need to.

Pulse
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> You could use the relocate missing files function, but this is mostly for being able to relocate moved files, not renamed files

@Pulse: Traktor is able to find renamed files because it identifies files by the AUDIO_ID fingerprint.

Could the latest RB 5.4.4 beta's fingerprint feature be used to enable this feature in the future as well?

Cheers

pedro estrela 0 votes
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Using an AUDIO_ID would require that rekordbox scan every audio file it encounters to a) check if it has an AUDIO_ID tag (where supported), and b) compare that file to its known files, then c) match and update the library.

Or... edit / manage tracks before?

Pulse 0 votes
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the AUDIO_ID comment was just an example. I'm not suggesting to use that field.

My question was only if the new 5.4.4 fingerprint feature would be a closer step to be able perform mass-relocate automatically.

> Or... edit / manage tracks before?

Indeed, I do significant preparation before importing, just like you.

Issue for me is that, over and over, I also do changes later as well (months / years later).

pedro estrela 0 votes
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Yeah, I understand -- and I'm sure there are better ways of doing it, but it is a complex thing, and complex systems that work better would certainly require more processing to manage it.

Pulse 0 votes
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Yes, it would be better to do all this before. But before a gig, there is analysing, listening, setting hot cues etc...mostly I don't have the time for proper renaming, even though I already have a good tool for it called Media Rage. Keeping things in order is a constant process, don't you agree? Are you that perfect that you never need to make changes?

In an ideal world, you clean up your kitchen and you never have to again. But this is not realistic for me. And I have made a living out of DJ'ing for over 20 years, so don't try to talk me into a beginner's discussion. Its a constant flow of work. Working with my vinyls allowed me to change things based on experience during dh'ing, so when I left the party, my library was in best shape and better shape than before.

The way Rekordbox works is fine as long as you don't encounter a "hostile" system, except that it would be better if it would be possible to change playlists while djing too to reflect that old workflow. But it is a nightmare if you try to work on the file based data structure AND rekordbox. Its twice the work or even impossible. If i could rename a file and then direct rekordbox to the newly named file, it would only be twice the work. But even thats impossible. It would be better if one could work on the filename and location from within rekordbox. Im suggesting this cause rekordbox IS already more professional than others regarding missing file functions (allowing to display missing files and then remove them. Still I wish there was an option to leave the missing files in playlists with a *** or so, cause this way, all the documentation in the history get5s lost too).

thegreenman 0 votes
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I'm also a veteran of 20+ years of DJing experience, managing more than my share of media formats, so I'm familiar with the process, and believe me, I've spent way too many hours thinking about and improving the way it's done. With a change from physical media to digital, we get double-edged swords; the capacity to not have things arranged in one physical order, but then also the mess of having things potentially linked everywhere, and with digital files we can add metadata galore, but spending the time managing it all can be a pain.

I have found systems to manage my digital media and avoid the pitfalls that occur not only within rekordbox, but virtually every other DJ application out there. I've learned what works and what doesn't -- and a lot of that is on us, the DJ, to take the right steps from the start. Some of the things I've dreamt up to make this whole process easier would be an absolute nightmare to code, or to execute (requiring realtime monitoring and intensive CPU cycles). We can certainly use tools already available to improve how we handle the mountain of music, and it starts with a good workflow. 

Just to give you some examples of the things I do -- I use MyTags extensively. I even go so far as to include what I categorize as "System" tags:

- InCollection
- New
- Processed
- Exported
- Edit
- AdjustGrid
- Problem

Those tags not only allow me to keep track of stupid little things (like AdjustGrid to note a track whose beat grid needs adjusting), but like yourself, I'm not just playing music at a gig, I'm also managing it - and I need to quickly make those notes and changes so I can come back later to keep my system consistent and easy to find my music.

I am well aware of the importance of using a well-managed file-structure, not just for music, but everything. Heck, I'm the kind of guy who adopted using a YYYY-MM-DD dating system because I was frustrated with how things got sorted poorly using a MM-DD-YYYY system. When it comes to music, the way I approach it is to sanitize it before it hits my music drive(s). I'll do any editing and tagging, run MiK or PN (if I so desire), rename if necessary, move it into the folder where it will live, then import all new songs to my collection simply by dragging the top "Music" folder into my DJ software. After that, it's only work within the DJ software; the file itself is now in its permanent home, and I could absolutely find it by browsing the folders (or by using a Finder / Explorer search).

Btw, your kitchen analogy doesn't work, because I don't mess up my songs by playing them and have to clean and put them away again. But if you can figure out a way for me to never need to clean my kitchen again, please let me know - I'm all ears!

Pulse 0 votes
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> I'll do any editing and tagging, run MiK or PN (if I so desire), rename if necessary, move it into the folder where it will live, then import all new songs to my collection simply by dragging the top "Music" folder into my DJ software. After that, it's only work within the DJ software;

@Pulse: I think this is the crucial point.

I don't want to work only within the DJ software, because managing files in Operating System folders allows me to open as many explorer/finder windows as needed, all of them with the folder tree of the left and the customized file details (large icons / details / etc) in the main window.

one my previous posts: https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115018095303/comments/360000392646

pedro estrela 0 votes
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Right... and that's what I've basically done up until that point.

Pulse 0 votes
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It´s intressting to see the discussion here, where a developer explains to a user why his feature request is not needed, but in a way it is of course sad.

In total, the playlist management options within recordbox are a bit poor and not top of the edge, if you complain with other software solutions. And that is what I expect from pioneer, to be top of the edge.

So Export Playlist with tracks, even if no USB device is connected, rename- or delete file options, must be of couse implemented to recordbox. You can not advice how your user should execute his file managment. You can only try to deliver the best possible solution to do that. You are in competition with other major software solutions and If I look to them, I can use the requested functionalitys since years. So please reconsider this and start to make a few enhancements on you playlist management options.

JOsha 1 vote
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@JOshua > Poor file / music management isn't a good reason to expect a software developer to meet the lowest-common-denominator.

I can't tell you how you should do it, but I can advise you on how to do it better.

Pulse 0 votes
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> Poor file / music management isn't a good reason ...

@Pulse, would prefer if you avoided this particular comment.
For some people managing files on the Operating system instead of the DJ software is better for them.

For other people managing files on the Operating system instead of the DJ software is worse for them.

Everything can be programmed against, its just a question of priorities.

pedro estrela 1 vote
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@Pulse: Hi Pulse, I do not need a training on how to manage my music. Please tell me if at least one of the functionalities i have requested will come in future Versions?

If I change my handling and manage my compilation only from recordbox, please add a feature that recordbox is asking if the file should also be deleted, when a track is removed from the collection.

JOsha 1 vote
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@pedro > Sure, we developed parachutes to avoid people hitting the ground at speed... but the much more efficient and cost-effective way to keep people from dying was just to teach them not to fall from heights.

Even old dogs can be taught new tricks.

@JOsha > The ability to delete tracks from the drive when they are deleted from the collection has been on the list for some time and while I don't have a timeline for its inclusion in the software, we do hope it is added in future.

Pulse 0 votes
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@Pulse: Thank you for the Information. I am not in a rush and it´s got to know that this feature is on to do. This little enhancement will avoid that I have to delete two times, from collection and at file level. So I will not have any music files on my hard drives which I can not longer see in Recordbox because the where already removed from the collection. And finally the collection and the file system is a bit more in sync then.

And only as a remark, I understand that there is much work and development within recordbox to come on a level that you have reached right now. But keep in mind your Users often change from other software solution to recordbox and for that reason they will compare and of course they will request features that they miss.

Also be aware of the price. If I see me invest a 2000,00 € in a Controller - Software Soloution, my Expectaions are of course on a high level too.

JOsha 0 votes
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