DJM-900 nexus ASIO MIDI bug with Ableton Live

Hello all.

Ok time to chime in my tupence. 

So this issue affects all pioneer drivers in 64bit from what I can discern reading around. It was the same with the original 900NXS too that I had.

That said, I think it should be noted that it does not breakdown MIDI entirely, nor the python scripting Ableton uses for most of its out-of-the-box controllers. 

In fact it just breaks the triggering of MIDI notes to a synth or rack from an external controller. I think by not recognising a Note Off command on the 1st triggered note, being caught in a loop and dismissing all further Note On's.

So, with my Push 1, if you use a Drum Rack, the 1st pad you press plays, you even get the step sequencer running where you can edit the sequence without issue for this single pad. You can use the length of loop change pads without a problem... everything else works, but you can't change pad/drum you are triggering, nor play a beat with your fingers.

All the pages work fine for the different modes and knobs. You can trigger previously created clips in Session View, create tracks, effects, etc... everything but change the 1st MIDI note you touch in Note Mode.

What makes me think it's a Note Off issue is if it's a Synth, as mentioned previously by someone the note continues to infinity or until you switch off the device and back on again, or change soundcard in prefs.

This only happens with Pioneer equipment and their ASIO drivers in my experience, but I'm not saying it's a Pioneer problem alone, something is wrong but I sincerely hope someone is working with guys at Ableton too because for industry standard club gear it doesn't make us confident to experiment at home with complicated setups we can't use in the real world.

Thanks for your eyes

Robbie

I will add to that:

I have tried to turn on or off MIDI for the 900NXS2 everywhere and it makes no difference.

Ableton doesn't hear it, the button is turned off and even moved its channel to 16 just in case

@Pulse,

Not to be funny but you shouldn't need anymore details. The problem is clear and only affects windows 64bit drivers by pioneer. I will make a video shortly but it affects MIDI Off codes with any MIDI device, including the computer keyboard when the keyboard to MIDI button is active. This proves that it affects ALL MIDI input devices as your keyboard is part of your computer and Ableton is making the ons and offs internally.

Ableton 10.1 is now out too so I will test it as well as 10.0.6 which I have installed now. Bit I bet nothings changed.

Our engineers are still working on resolving this issue, thank you for your patience.

Hi folks,

I ran into this problem today with my DJM-850 where Ableton Push would play one or two notes and then stop responding even though MIDI is getting into Ableton. I narrowed it down to the Pioneer driver as you all have.

I have also found a workaround / fix. It's quite simple:

- install Voicemeeter for free: https://www.vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/

- set your ASIO driver to Voicemeeter in Ableton

- inside the Voicemeeter mixer set output A1 to ASIO: Pioneer DJM850 in the top right

Voicemeeter will now use the Pioneer ASIO driver outside of Ableton Live and everything works as it should, and you still get the low latency of the driver.

Then the best thing to do is to set your main Windows audio output to 'Voicemeeter Input' in your Windows Sound settings so everything runs through this mixer. This means you can record direct from System audio (like YouTube or whatever) straight into an audio track in Live, and also means your system audio comes out the DJM.

Thought I'd post it here in case it helps anyone else!

Thanks,

Simon

There is a pro-audio shop in the neighborhood willing to let me test with one of their DJM-900's on Monday so if it's not fixed by then I'll go see if I can duplicate the fault on the hardware end.

There is also a duplicate of this ticket on Ableton's support service containing status reports and crash reports generated during the fault, but I have a feeling I will be able to after reading this. 

Oh and here is a video of it happening: https://goo.gl/photos/YzVKdZSRCdTnNVY68

Update: I determined that the DJM-900 nexus ASIO driver works fine in 32bit Ableton Live. The question is why is that a fix? I am running 1.601 drivers on Win7 Ultimate. I have also tested 64 bit Ableton thoroughly with 1.710 - even though it says it is not for Win7. Neither driver works in 64 bit Ableton Live when it comes to Live MIDI output.

:(.....

Hi, i have the same problem with djm750. Any solutions to fix it?

Same problem with DJM-T1,we need a fix !!

I was never able to find a fix for this. Ended up buying a Native Insturments Komplete Audio 6 which works but has it's own problems.

Expecting Pioneer let us know something about that bug..at the price of the product i think it would be the right thing to do from them... btw.. just another one dissapointed pioneer djm900nxs2 user... wondering whats the storry with aplle comps....

Hi All, I have the same problem with DJM850k , Ableton and Novation Remote SL

see what happen when I play with asio4all or with pioneer djm-850 asio at the video at the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NBrSuoPQCk1vXZEXkBXBPy1mKLFECeJZ/view?usp=sharing

hej there,

i have exactly the same issue:

+ ableton live 10, any kind of midi input (have a keyboard and a push2)

+ if i use native pioneer ASIO driver after the first midi note - midi input freezes

+ if i switch back to dx/wave driver everything works fine, but as i expect low latency operation with ASIO from a +2K sound device this should be fixed by you pioneer guys!

greetz from vienna

gerold

forgot to mention i have a djm900nx2 with the new beta drivers posted in some other thread

In my opinion, Pioneer did not even try to simulate and solve this problem. Instead of looking for the cause they prefer to find the guilty midi devices

Have any of you tried disabling the MIDI input from the DJM when this occurs?

not yet - but will do this evening .... how do i disable the the midi input on DJM side ? 

greetz from vienna

Hello,

I'm having this same issue with my DJM 750 mk1, Akai MPK, and 64-bit Ableton 10 on a Windows 8 OS.

I've disabled all MIDI input from the DJM and tried using different USB inputs and different MIDI channels from the MPK.  I'm still able to map all the controls on the MPK while running the DJM's soundcard, but I have no instrument control except momentarily whenever I first hit a key before it completely stops.  The other thing I've tried is to remove MIDI control from the MPK and run the DJM's MIDI and I found that even then the DJM's MIDI is read through the assigned channel only momentarily before dropping completely.  The signal is still detected according to the MIDI input detection in Ableton, but nothing is coming through the individual channels.

I hope this issue gets worked out soon!

Thanks

Hey guys, Same problem here with a DJM 900 nexus

Running ableton live, ASIO audio. same problem as above. midi controller works for the 1 second when first connected before jamming up. ableton is still picking up midi signal, but i have no instrument control.

tried all the usual culprits (cables, midi routing, disabling the mixer midi, changing audio drivers) 

would love a fix for this because like people have already said,  for the price of these mixers, they just NEED to work. 

Please can we have an update on this Pulse

Hi im having exact same problems with my friends DJM850s, hook up to Ableton live 9.7 and it exhibits this behaviour.
All sound works if you use step sequencer to Input midi on Push 1.
Try and trigger the drum pads though and it triggers for a split second then nothing.
This is a Pioneer problem for sure as it does not happen with Denon X1700, Native instruments Audio 4, Numark DJ IO Asio soundcard I have tested, or with the windows native drivers.
Cannot believe this is not being addressed.

same here still with Ableton live 10 on Windows 10 64bit and a djm 900nxs2...I really cannot believe that I have bought a 2K high-end mixer and the company building it just totally ignoring its customers

PIONEER - CAN YOU AT LEAST AKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE ?????

when someone asks me about buying a good mixer I am already starting to tell them that they should avoid pioneer ....

a very frustrated customer.

Hi there,

I just spent nearly a whole day trying to resolve this issue using my DJM-900NXS2, I initially thought it was an Ableton or Push MIDI issue so spent a long time looking into that..

Then by trial and error, I switched the audio device in Ableton from Pioneer ASIO to dx/wave (using either Pioneer DJM or Windows built-in audio), and the issue was gone!

Then from a Google search I found this thread, and realised it's actually a Pioneer driver issue.

Extremely frustrating! The DJM-900NXS2 is a flagship device, we should be able to use it as an ASIO low-latency device with popular software like Ableton 10. Please can this issue be fixed in the 64-bit ASIO driver?

Thanks (from a frustrated customer!)

I'm in dialogue with Pioneer support about this issue with the DJM 850s, Win 10 64 bit and either Push 1 or 2.
Their tech support are saying it's nothing to do with their drivers. It is apparently the fault of Ableton and the way it interprets the Midi sent from the DJM mixers.
Take from that what you will.
I'm now contacting Ableton support and will see what they say, and would encourage anyone who has this problem to get on to both companies support because someone is telling fibs.

@Alex Mci: "It is apparently the fault of Ableton and the way it interprets the Midi sent from the DJM mixers."

My understanding of this issue so far based on my observations (see above comment), is that it's an ASIO driver issue (i.e. an audio issue), rather than a MIDI issue?

I understand that the DJM mixers with MIDI output can send MIDI to Ableton (in addition to sending ASIO audio), but I've deliberately disabled MIDI from the DJM in Ableton to narrow down the issue..

Thanks!

p.s. As an aside, confusingly there is a different issue that IS a MIDI issue, which I'm currently talking to Pioneer support about: https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360040491171-DJM-900-NXS2-and-Ableton-Midi-Sync

@Alza, that is my opinion also, I have tried it with numerous audio interface, Asio driver and windows native.
I have tested on desktop pc and laptop and even had a go with an old 32bit set up. Which works perfectly by the way.
It always comes down to the Pioneer drivers use that kills everything I try on push, switch audio interface and your good to go.
It's just so wrong.

Hi folks,

Just checking in again, does anyone have any developments on this issue from Pioneer? I opened a request with Pioneer support, but I've not had any response yet :(

I've also found three other forum posts from different users reporting what is effectively the same issue, from a year ago or even longer:

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360012401883-DJM-900-nexus-and-Ableton-Live-10-Bugs

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360001314123-Ableton-Live-9-with-DJM-900nxs-sound-output-kills-MIDI-keyboard-inputs

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115019177743-DJM-750K-Posible-error-driver-ASIO

There is still no official acknowledgement from Pioneer to confirm or deny the issue (i.e. by attempting to reproduce it), which would be the first step before even providing a fix.

What's the point in offering ASIO and/or MIDI support in these products, if you're not going to prioritise compatibility issues with other companies products (whether they are regarded as "competitors" or not), when the whole point of ASIO and MIDI are all about making hardware and software work together?

So frustrating.. a $2000+ mixer can't be used with ASIO and Ableton MIDI devices (a popular use case considering the number of users reporting the issue), all because of driver issues :(

***PIONEER, PLEASE CAN YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THIS ISSUE***

Or, please respond to my opened support case :)

Thanks :)

Pioneer support denied this is an issue for them to me, they tried to blame Ableton.
When I pointed out that it works fine on 32bit and I was pretty sure it's a pioneer driver problem because after trying all sorts of other audio interfaces without problem everything points to the 64bit asio.driver for Windows being the culprit.
The broke off communication and basically ignored me. Their support is a joke and is the main reason I'm now using Denon gear without any problems. Absolutely disgusting that Pioneer treat their customers like this.
I have now taken to trolling their Facebook posts warning any one else stupid enough to shell out thousands on their gear.

They can't acknowledge that it's an issue with their product (hardware or software) if they're unable to determine the cause of it.

Our teams have been working on this for quite some time, but as you can tell from the lack of updates, it's a difficult nut to crack.

I have asked them to continue investigating based on the information provided in this, and other, threads.