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[CLOSED] djm-850 electrical shock!

hey, have bought new cdj 850ks and a djm 850k setup. i noticed that i was getting very strong some actually painful shocks whenever my hand came into contact with the headphone socket, any screws on the faceplate and the pack panel was painful to touch even waving my had around there i could feel a charge. this would happen no matter which cdj i plugged in (even one by one), which power outlet i tried around the house and which power cables and power boards i tried using. ialso tried flipping the cdj figure 8 power cables around which made no difference. pls note im in aus.

i then exchanged my mixer for another one and the shocks  appeared to be apparently gone. i also had moved my sub and speakers away from the equip and power board. a day later i put my sub and speakers where they used to be an noticed that again similar yet milder shocks we back. and now they still stay even after moving it to another outlet, board and location.

iv never had this problem with a cdj-2000 and djm-2000 setup i had which i kept in the same location in the previous years for a period of 2 yrs, including the speakers and sub.

what should i do now?

 

ps iv also had djm 800 and turntables attached back in the day and even they didnt do this.

icewang64

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now its getting stronger over time just like with the last mixer i was using before i got it changed. its actually stinging now its way more intense. iv had to unplug it. i dont think this is safe if its getting to the point of stinging rather than tingling. 

icewang64 0 voti
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a little stronger now again..... ???? any help???? atm is unusable unless i have shoes on.....

would love to get some support so i can use something i paid 3 and a half grand for.

icewang64 0 voti
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i created a support request today and it got closed and deemed as solved without anyone even responding. tried again same thing. why?

icewang64 0 voti
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wow..... maybe i should say omg i pioneer is awsome best gear looks soo good sounds awsome amazing, david guetta, justin bieber! then ill get some activity.

check my account a number of threads with problems go unanswered even un till now and see how old they r.

gavin and pulse must have a selective forun post response disorder. very common amongst big companies when i actualy asked my retailers about pioneer.

just saw it even in another thread that took years to get answered finaly after pressure form other members about the cdj 850s inaccurate looping system.

icewang64 0 voti
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@icewang64 > I apologise for the delay - I'm sure you'll appreciate I'm very busy on these boards getting to everyone's questions.

If you just have the mixer powered on and nothing else, do you get a shock? Do you have the option of reversing the polarity of the plug in the AC socket? Have you tried grounding the mixer?

Gavin 0 voti
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ahh hey good to hear from u was getting worries as a few of my questions never got answered in previous posts. iv already sold an sx unit due to many issues, which werent pioneers fault actually the hardware was great, just serato was a disappointment i preferred itch in a number of ways.

 

anyway yeah i reversed the cdj plugs before, its not the mixer itself its the current from the rca cables from the cdjs that cause it. when the rca r disconnected its fine. mixer is grounded for what i know because its a 3 way plug.

i had issue, so i returned mixer. with replacement mixer it worked fine again but overnight same issue developed. any cases similar? iv used the same power outlet each time the issue developed. the problem is the issue was fine initial but developed each time i got a new mixer over the next day. and once it starts to shcok it continues no matter which outlet i use.

what could have caused this kind of failure in the mixer? im using 2 cdj 850 with same date dec 2012. using hdj2000 headphones. the only thing if note i can say is i have really old logitech speakers sitting right next to the power outlet and mixer, they r connected to the same outlet but its not connected to the mixer at all. im just on headphones the entire time.

 

icewang64 0 voti
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@icewang64 > Sorry about that, I'll get to them eventually.

So its not the mixer that is the issue, its the CDJs? Have you tried reversing the polarity of the CDJs? Does it happen with BOTH CDJs or just one?

Gavin 0 voti
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no idea what it could be. as iv said before reversing polarity on cdjs does not help. and also its both cdjs. current leaking when iether of them connected. and its very stronv when both are connected. i noticed that the problem occoured when i moved speakers and a sub around a little which r not connected to the cdj but plugged into the same power point. could there be electromagnetic interfierence from them? no idea why the djm designs dont earth properly. djm is using a 3 plug on outlet so iv got no idea.

icewang64 0 voti
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@icewang64 > I'm not sure, I'll ask the engineers what they recommend / suggest.

Gavin 0 voti
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ok cheers. i thinking its the mixers design as the back of the unit only has 2 pins no ground. however the cable i was supplied twice in a row was a 3 pin cable no idea why. so the mixer is class 2 not class 1 as i expected it to be.

im guessing its a design flaw as its happened to replacement mixer too. both new. the insulation isnt workin well. funny thing is that the tingle dissappeared or became extreemly weak for a few weeks then all of a sudden came back very strong. i realised that its been raining last few days and has been dry previously so the increase in humidity might be affecting it.

anyway let me know what i should do about it. maybe a service center can install a ground plug somehow. my 800 and 2000 had 3 pins in the past.

icewang64 0 voti
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im sure it doesn't take over a month to ask an engineer at ur company a few questions let alone get answers.

maybe every question iv asked here is a design flaw like the time i asked about the leakage of sound through the cue of the ddj-s1. and the sx questions went unanswered, i had to take so many videos and sent it to serato and they still couldn't understand or accept that a software change in one of their updates caused the issue with the lights as downgrading would make them work again.

and as far for pioneers build quality im beginning to realise in alot of areas it non existent. for example even something like cdj-850 which cost 900 bucks a little cheaper than the age old 1000mk3s have low end parts. yet the price tag remains higher than and everytime the price is brought into question the answer always is oh pioneer quality parts quality design quality support and david quetta uses it so shutup...

so far the read speed cant even analyse waveforms even fro cd formats, have to use usb and do it in recordbox, must be a 10 dollar lens or processor.

the pitch slider isnt even accurate. sometimes u have to move it up and down again to be able to get to to a specific pitch value a it skips values, the pitch slider on the s1 had much more accuracy and the entire thing cost the same price as one bloody cdj!

auto beat looping couldn't be made tighter because of hardware limitations, even after firmware, i wonder if its do do with more cheap parts, or product placement so ppl have to shell out for cdj-900s. 

and so far some friends of mine who are electrical engineers but not in the field of audio of entertainment design, have come over and they things its shi**y design, or cheapy parts eg the capacitors. they say its common with cheap devices such as budget dvd and blue ray players but not supposed to be on high end audio equipment (or premium as pioneer put it).

so far they have suggested to counteract the potential of difference that makes me the earth i should use an isolation transformer, however those things cost around $200 and even more. iv shelled out $3500 ill stop there.

icewang64 0 voti
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The engineers have reviewed several possible causes and narrowed them down to the most probable one. 

Power leakage from devices connected to DJM-850 could be one of the reasons for this issue. 

Would it be possible to let us know the following information based on this assumption?

1) Which country is this user use the unit? 

2) What is the voltage of the area? (120v or 220v) 

The above 2 questions may be answered by seeing the user information, right?

If so, please ask icewang64 the following questions. 

3) All the devices connected with DJM-850 and its power cable type (2pin or 3pin) 

4) Does this issue occur when DJM-850 is not connected to any devices? 

5) If the above 4) is No, which device is connected when this issue occurs? 

6) You said the issue was gone when DJM-850 is replaced with other mixer. What mixer did you use? Does the mixer have 2 pin or 3 pin cable socket? 

7) Is it possible to change the power socket, where you might have the issue, to 2 pin from 3 pin? You need to have an adaptor to change from 2 pin to 3 pin. 

If no grounding is selected, power leakage could be reduced.

Gavin 0 voti
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Thank you mr engineer! ok he we go:

  1. Australia

  2. 240V

  3. All devices are only 2 pin (no ground) (no extra devices in setup just the cdjs, mixer and headphones)

  4. No

  5. Happens when connecting either cdj to the mixer. happens with both individually and together. (current stronger when both cdjs plugged in)

  6. The issue came  with the first djm 850 after leaving it plugged for a few hours. i got it replaced with a second djm 850. after leaving it plugged it for a day the issue also arose on this mixer.

  7. All our wall sockets are 3 pin. however all the pioneer cdjs and mixer only have 2 pins. please note there is nothing else connected to this setup apart from the cdjs and mixer. i monitor through hdj2000 headphones.

Heres a note. The tingling did not happen straight away when i got them. a noticed it the following day on both occasions. when the tingling started i tried different outlets everywhere but had the same issue from the moment the power on the wall is turned on, on any cdj.

However, if i leaved everything unplugged from the wall for a week, the plug it back again. the tingling disappears. i then used the units leaving them plugged in for about 3 weeks. however one day it suddenly came back.

icewang64 0 voti
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hey Gavin could you also pass the following information to the engineers along with my last post:

i believe the leak is coming from both the cdj-850s. when i do get tinging on mixer i also get tingling off the rca cables when i hold them in my hand directly. (this happens even if cdj is on and also off, but plugged into the mains.

however, when i left my cdjs disconnected for a week and the tingling stopped. then when i hold the rca cable im not getting any tingling. even when the cdj is powered on and a track is playing. 

this happens with both cdjs not just one. both the manufacturing dates of the cdjs are the same. (december 2012)

for it to appear and disappear could it be that there is some interference from my power outlet? or some other device? (not that have have anything connected) or is this a design flaw/issue. cos my mixer does not have a ground pin on the mixer itself and when i owned cdj-2000s and a djm-800 + djm-2000. both those mixers had a 3rd ground plug. (both were bought in USA not here locally in AUS,

icewang64 0 voti
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I have the same Issue on a DJM800, well had...

I had a pool party so I was barefeet (I took a few swims inbetween), Dried everything so no water into/onto the gear.

2x CDJ1000MK3 connected to DJM800 via Digital RCA.

All European so 220V or 240V nowadays.

DJM is 2 pins in the DJM if I'm sure.

The shock only occured when on barefeet (the gear was on a wooden table).

 

Sammy 0 voti
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Addition to the above post :

The amp that was connected by RCA also emitted current this was stanging on the floor ontop of the flight case.

It clearly came from the DJM, it never happens at home because I have a laminate floor so yeah..

The DJM somehow sent a quite annoying current (like the static discharge when you open your car etc).

I'm really wondering what causes this...

Sammy 0 voti
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I had a similar issue with my djm900 and cdj2000nxs, but only when i put the gear in a flightcase.

I changed the 2pin cable with  a 3pin cable and connected the grounding with the grounding at the djm. From this moment i got never a shock anymore.

In my it was a simple grounding problem.

Chris 0 voti
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My mixer does not have a 3 pin part in it, therefore I cannot ground it by using the cable.

My gear was out of the flightcase.

Sammy 0 voti
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@icewang64 > The engineers have been updated with the information you passed along, many thanks for that. I expect to hear from them extremely soon.

Gavin 0 voti
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icewang64 (nice name dude) I had the same issue very rarely on just about every mixer I have owned (not just Pioneers) and have experienced it on the DJM-800 & DJM-900. I am also in Australia. I understand what you mean by a 'tingle' sensation, it usually only happens when the air is dry and you aren't wearing shoes. 

For me it always came down to grounding every single time. Best check to see if your house ground is properly working (electrician) to ensure that all ground electricity is actually going to ground rather than through you. Also make sure that if you are using a powerboard it is properly passing ground through to your houses ground as well. Try a new powerboard and see if the issue goes away. 

I have also had the issue when connecting my gear up to other electrical equipment i.e. you run a master out to a nearby computer that is running on a different electrical circuit, causes some weird things to happen some times.

In all cases for me it didn't really hurt, it was just an annoyance. But make sure everything is properly grounded and make sure as Chris said you are using a 3 pin cable.

DJCotts 0 voti
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@icewang64 > The engineers are wondering if the problem, you believe, lies with the mixer or the CDJs? As it is, the mixer hardware engineers are trying to help me on this issue...

Gavin 0 voti
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Yeah, reading through everything I'm also feeling that the problem is not the mixer. Have an electrician take a look at your setup.

Pulse 0 voti
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The problem is definitely inside the DJM, only happens during summer and outside.

Never had those issues inside/on my room in which case there is no grounding attached.

Sammy 0 voti
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hey, yeah, btw i guess people might have not understood properly, but all of my devices including mixer dont have gounding, they are all 2 pin at the device not just cable. so i have no way to ground them. 

im in brisbane and we have had virtualy no rain for 3 months, and during this period the shocking went away (after i left everything unplugged for about a week to let the current drain, then reconnected). however we have had 2 daysof rain, the humidity came back and no so has the shocking, im now pretty certain that this is a design issue as humitidy is what causes the shocking to come back.

can i get my unit replaced with one with a 3 ping with ground at the mixer? all my old pioneer mixers had ground dont know why the new ones dont have them anymore.

ps im also using a new power board with surge protection, new power point in my room, and our house elec systems been through a checkup and is fine.

icewang64 0 voti
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aslo there is nothing else running on that outlet, just the cdjs and mixer, and my hdj-2000s plugged  into the mixer, nothing else! its definitely happening during hot humid days.

icewang64 0 voti
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another update. im getting the shock when i touch the rca cables that are connected to the cdjs, this never happened before (when we had dry weather). the leak must be on the cdjs not the mixer. when the rca cables are only connected to the mixer i get no tingle of the tips of the cables. however i get it when its connected to the cdjs. this is the same current that i feel from the mixer when everythings connected so its defiantly the cdjs at fault as the cables give no shock when the weather is dry. for now my im wearing shoes to avoid the shocks.

so in short is it normal for the rca cables that are connected to a cdj to give a current shock during humid wet weather?

and why does it only happen during humid conditions not dry?

the problem is definalty the cdjs causing it. it has the same behavior with BOTH of them so must be a design flaw, if my mixer had a ground it would remove the potential of difference when the cdjs would be plugged in to the mixer however the mixer has no ground iether so i can do nothing about it.

 

icewang64 0 voti
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