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nightclub problem-------cdj 2000s drifting?

hi

i help run a nightclub which is newly opened for about 3 months now and we have been having complaints from many of the djs (guests and residents) about the 2000s and how it is very difficult to mix with them and say they do not lock in the mix like mk3's do. it is a bit annoying since we paid very very good money for these decks as we wanted a brand new club to have the latest equipment and is a bit embarrassing when we book big name guests who complain about our gear one guest even brought their own mk3s the second time he got booked. it is a bit unfortunate how their is a problem but we can only fix by downgrading and selling the 2000s for much less than we bought them for and we do not want to do that we want them to be fixed right and work properly.......... as with all nightclubs we are generally locked into buying pioneer gear and if their is a problem like this occuring with the 2000's it is a bit unfair to nightclubs, bars and djs alike...

 

is there any advice from anyone on how to solve this?

 

many thanks

Elliot Halloran

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109 commenti

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You need to tell them NOT to use the "Master Tempo" function, it's completely useless as an aid to mixing and yes it was OK on the Mk3's but it sure ain't on the 2000's.

Pioneer are aware, but I'm sure were stuck with what we got, a feature we paid for that con't be used.

On a plus note, the 2000's are OK without this option enabled.

Effect 0 voti
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most of the djs have told me that it is doing it even with the master tempo off.... as some of them are already aware of the problem.... not as much with it on but it is still doing it but they shouldnt have to do that on a pair of decks that cost the club nearly £3000!!!!!!! thats more than i bought my car for!

Elliot Halloran 0 voti
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yes, thats it. there has been complaints on this forum about this recently, hopefully Pio gets to the bottom of it

BriChi 0 voti
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ah ok lets hope so as i am not very happy along with a lot of disgruntled djs!!!!

Elliot Halloran 0 voti
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so am i understanding correct, 4.04 is no good?

i haven't updated yet and don't think i will if this is the case!

does this happen when playing audio/timecode Cds also? or just with RB analized files.

DubLN 0 voti
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I am not sure where the problem lies, Fortunately I do not have this issue, i have done over a dozen parties already with 4.04 and never noticed drifting, i have to search around for the details on what people are using/doing so i can try and reproduce and know what to stay away from. For me, I leave MT off, all my files are mp3's and linked to the 2000's via Rekordbox, I don't use an external drive during the gigs, leave it plugged in just as a backup for when RB crashes, which it does here and there during some gigs, but thats another problem, :)

BriChi 0 voti
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I do not notice any drifting anymore and  I am using MT.  Also, the  MT sound has improved as well.

jamboe 0 voti
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I only notice drifting of the tempo when using Master Tempo, so I leave that feature turned off.

Besides that, the only explanations I could think of are:

1.  Which tempo range is being used?  I ONLY use the +/- 6% range because it gives the most precise control of tempo.

2.  It could be the music files they are using.  Sometimes the music itself isn't perfectly stable in tempo throughout the track.  This is why programs like Ableton Live have their warping engines.  To correct for tempo changes.

Fuse Promote 0 voti
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I haven't noticed any drifting on my CDJ-2000's. I rarely use the MT and if I do it's only for a short time when moving the pitch to the correct tempo.

I'm using the +/-6% range, the difference in BPM between the tracks I mix is max 2 BPM e.g. 138 to 140... The files I'm using is mostly AIFF.

Sometimes I have tracks that aren't steady on the BPM, then I have to use my ears to listen when the track is drifting away and nudge the platter to keep it on beat with the other track...

oakstream 0 voti
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I'm with Oakstream. I rarely use the master tempo except for a limited time when shifting to the correct tempo of the music.

Uncompressed WAV files ripped from CD are my only source of music.

MIKE BILLS ENTERTAINMENT 0 voti
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@Elliot, same thing I have noticed the first moment I updated to firmware 4.04 from 4.01.

and I am talking also when MT is off.

For me, in version 4.01 and all the previous I had, cdjs seemed to lock tracks excellent with out any effort at all.

When I updated to latest firmware I noticed a bit of a difference when I mix tracks to each other.

All I think is firmwares fault cause its something that didn't happen with previous firmware versions.

Dont get me wrong you can still make the mix and cdjs are two very good multi players. But with the correct firmware it can be perfect.

 

Read also this  http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/20211152-cdj-2000-firmware-4-04-pitch-not-same-as-4-01

Dream Treez 0 voti
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A lot of the "drifting" is subjective and overcorrection on the part of the DJ will lead to a trainwreck, but if the track is left to play, it will be just fine.

Pulse 0 voti
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i find that quite offensive pulse i highly doubt the skill of the dj's we book pulse we like to think we are a reputable nightclub who book djs who are well respected in the UK and europe as well as having our own skilled local resident djs and from directly talking to them if they are saying there is a problem with all their years of experience with cdj 800s, 1000s mk1, 2 and 3s they say there is a noticeable difference and a problem with the 2000s not just in our club but any other club that have decided to make the large investment in this model....

Elliot Halloran 0 voti
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M.T. is a M.F'r -

Don't use it to "60sec Beat Match Mix" traditional style dance music.. the bpms should be close enough anyways.

For Open format DJ stuff - The bpm range can vary alot .... But the mix overs are very short in length- so this shouldn't matter.

I know some House DJs use MT so when you nudge the platter you dont hear the pitch bend... but seems they can't hear what else is going on.

Prepare your tracks in Recordbox for a more accurate bpms. Alot of Djs mix from the what the BPM reads instead of what their ears hear.

Drifting will always occur at some point when mixing manually - The Cdj-2000's do not seem abnormal here. Yes, maybe they can improve MT in the next firmware update - Not my deal.. wont use it anyways.. I would like stuff like a zoomable waveform, such a nice display - Take Advantage of that real estate!!!    . . . Anyways.

I've Actually found that once my tracks are prepared in Rekordbox the bpms are so tight that you dont even need your headphones to mix.

 Impressed!

 

Rossi 0 voti
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Personally, I always felt that the CDJ players drifted more than I would like when compared to vinyl, and that goes for versions MK1-MK3 of the CDJ-1000 and for the current players.  Since the pitch control on all CD players is digital, it is not always possible to get a perfect beat match without needing manual corrections.  I always felt that I had more precise control with vinyl than CD players.

I wish Pioneer would make the pitch control more precise in future versions of these players.  +/- .02% is not good enough.  I would like to see +/- .01 or .005%.

Fuse Promote 0 voti
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i think many djs have got used to serato & traktor virtually doing all the work for us and being tighter than a nuns chuff when it comes to beat gridding... however, go back to your 1210 or citronic belt drive deck and lets see how things pan out!  I bet there would be quite a few dj's out there with very red faces, unable to keep two tracks on beat!  If these cdj2000s drift, correct it, whats the problem?  Ok! we have all paid a huge sum of cash for top kit and we expect it to be spot on... these decks can do a lot more than the cdj1000, 800 etc... so lets not even go there - i do recall the 800s being total dog poo at looping, and the new 800 is no better!  Something pioneer should address btw!

Im more than happy with my cdj's and think i can possibly say i was one of the first to have them in the UK... so if you think they are bad now you should have tried them back in oct 2009!

I would like to think pioneer know what they have got to do by now, as this isnt the first post on how crap the cdj's are!

I for one wouldnt like to see denon or cirtonic taking over dj booths the world over...

Elliot,  if you or your djs arent happy with the desck... maybe try returning them on the basis that they dont do what they said on the tin... if you can why not try to swap for denon... if you did this i think you'd soon be back to the shop asking to have your rubbish cdj2000s back! ;)

Matt Jackson 0 voti
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I've been running my 2k's with 4.01 and REFUSE to do the upgrade.  I keep rekordbox downrev'd too.  All my tracks are .aif and prepped in rekordbox, with beatgrids aligned.  I do not detect any appreciable drift for at least 60sec with MT on or off.

 

FWIW:  Having a software and systems engineering background has taught me the discipline to NEVER download an update at first sighting.  I will wait at least a few weeks and watch the forum closely for user experiences.  This issue with drifting (et-al) are classic examples of why, and is indicative of something amiss in the QA and release processes at Pioneer.  Thankfully, these machines can be field-upgraded, but that is not an excuse for being sloppy in the validation process.

 

My advice to y'all is to downrev your decks to 4.01, if possible.  It works.

 

-Pope

pope 0 voti
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Oh, @Fuse, regarding BPM/pitch control accuracy:

Do you know the trick of just edging the BPM 'til the display just 'falls' over to the desired tempo?  You need to do it by a consistent direction.  For example, if you want 130.0, edge it up to 129.9, then nudge it over to 130.0.  It will be 130.0 within an RCH.  Do the same from the same direction (nudging UP) and both decks will now be in lock.  This works best with digitally produced material (vinyl rips will drift somewhat because even a 1210m5g with RESET turned on will slew a little bit.)

pope 0 voti
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Yes, I am aware of that technique and I do use it as a starting point.  But then beatmatch by ear to be sure.  I still find that manual corrections are needed fairly often to keep things aligned to my taste.  If the pitch control had more precision available to us, I think that aspect could be improved.

As for ripping from vinyl...  I don't buy vinyl anymore so I don't have much need to rip it.  But when I did rip my vinyl, I found that one thing which helped out with ensuring more stable tempo was to swap the slip mats for the rubber mat that came with the Technics.

Fuse Promote 0 voti
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@ Matt -  People paid for something that is not working fine and we are here trying to get a feedback from Pioneer on it's fix. So saying "oh cmon you should have seen how bad this or that was...." is not really the propper thing to do.

Of course there is a problem with 4.04 or there wouldn't be so many people here complaining about that. I can't say much cause I'm still using 4.01 and it has the mastertempo glitch.

About the drifting problem - The pitch is really the most sensitive one I ever put my hands on. Playing in +-10 is not a good option to me. I always use +-6.

@ Fuse - I don't think they will ever consider including a lower range because the cjd display simply doesn't have any other option so...

My true frustration is about not having a feedback from engineering staff. A simple word from them saying they are working on the problem and giving it priority would be awesome.

DJ Cello 0 voti
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Oh I forgot to mention... They should really consider allowing ppl going back to an older firmware version! 

DJ Cello 0 voti
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I'm still on FW 4.01 and Rekordbox 1.4.1 and are as stable as can be.

MIKE BILLS ENTERTAINMENT 0 voti
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@DJ Cello one of your points about the pio engineers... i think the forum should have a 'bugs working on' page so we can see what their top priorities are!

other than that im on the latest FW and i dont have any issues with these decks now... and havent for the past few upgrades!

I dont use the pro link as in a dj booth there isnt the room so most often play from USB HD or SDHC cards... Yes i think there is still room for improvement and pio shouldnt have released something as bad as they did back on oct 2009... maybe denon or someone forced the issue by bringing out some competing kit????

my decks are used every week for at least 6hrs a day and more at the weekends... if they were that bad i wouldnt be using them - so to say the bpm drifts a slight amount is easily corrected, it part of being a dj!

Matt Jackson 0 voti
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I recently played out on 1000's mk3 with MT on and my mixing was tighter than on home cdj 2000 with MT on.  Turn MT off and mixing is perfect. tired of pioneer saying its the user. that rubbish. i have been mixing for over 10 years now. There is something wrong with MT, and a track drifts when looping. Period. Just sort it out.   

cjb001 0 voti
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OK, I've used the 2000s before and never had a problem with them. I have a pair of 900s and I mix with them manually. There will be some drifting when you do mix without the use of syncing. That's why it's called beat-matching. Everyone has their own preference when it comes to mixing but that's how the 2000s and 900s work.

Mista T Dot 0 voti
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@ Mista you mix with with your cdjs manually ? Come on, is there a way to mix automaticaly ? An auto sync botton doesnt exist in cdjs. There is only the MT botton to mix in key and that doesnt work properly.

Dream Treez 0 voti
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Maybe is if speak to the cdj or smile at it, it would do the mix automaticaly.

Dream Treez 0 voti
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