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Toraiz SP 16 Erase internal samples

As I delve deeper and use the Toraiz SP 16 to produce/remix I'm finding so many limitations.

I'm sampling live into the unit (not happy there isn't a spdif in/out for this) from my DJM 900 nxs 2 and I wasn't happy with the sample.  I'm looking all over the place to delete the file and find that there is no way to do this unless you put the Toraiz into a usb mode, then connecting a usb cable to the computer to then be able to access the files to delete.  

That definitely takes me out of my flow.  I might as well just use my ableton push controller or maschine and work on the computer.  

C'mon Pioneer.  You have a really good concept going here.  

I need to be able to access more than 16 sounds/samples per scene.  Maschine has unlimited banks; Even the old akai boxes have 4 - 8 banks of 16 samples allowing you to access 64-128 sounds/samples at once.  

Where is the VST/Standalone workflow (like mpc or maschines software)?

Dave The One Mendez

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Didnt know this. Your right. We're in an age where everyone links all their products to computers unbeknownst that some people want to avoid them when making music. For something that simple, that should be allowed.  

 

As for the 16 samples, thats a pretty good limitation otherwise you'd buy an MPC. Some limits are good. I've worked on MPC's for years and got lost in the isles like a Mega-Walmart. 16 samples are enough, then you work around like, changing a scene to change a sample, or record a 4 bar loop (2 bars/2 bars) the first 2 bars are one loop, the other 2 are another loop. Then Slice and switch back and forth in patterns. 

Or, grab an MPC 2500. 

 

With an octatrack, I have unlimited access to every sample on my card at any given time, its like having a billion bullets and 1 gun. Gonna take some time to load up, you know. 

Hasan Some dude -1 票
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I'm in NYC, My Toraiz SP16 is for sale.  No disrespect to Pioneer DJ but i'm done. Everyone else interested please inbox me.

Akai MPC Live it is.  

I loaded sounds mixed with 808 and 909 samples and had room for only one synth sound.  This is unacceptable.  Honestly I can't anymore.  

 

 

Dave The One Mendez 0 票
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Didn't you read the box before you bought it? I think I read the entire manual before making a purchase. Watched all the videos too. 

Maybe resample your drums to 1. Kicks and snares, 2. Hats, 3. Misc percussion. Then you have 13 tracks available. Great thing, you can resample in sync with everything, so play your tracks, resample, tweak the effects, go nuts. Resample 3 variations, save em, then load them in scenes, switch the scenes in the arrangement, instant drum variations in sync. 

OR! Just grab an MPC, they are pretty much ready for everything. 

Must have never used a Roland sampler, all workarounds, makes it even more fun. Once you step to an mpc, you might as well get a maschine, then you might as well get a push, then you might as well save money and use a laptop with no controllers. Then you.... It goes on forever. Workarounds are awesome. 

Hasan Some dude 0 票
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Ha!

Firstly; I've owned the sp 1200, MPC 3000, 2000, 2000XL and 4000.  

No, wait are you saying Roland was the premiere sampler over Akai and Emu?  LOL

Using the Toraiz SP16 in it's current state is far from fun.  It is an absolute waste of space.  

Anyone looking to purchase this sampler; absolutely contact me, I can answer every question you have.

Working on a video to upload to youtube. This is not even close to a real sampler.

Dave The One Mendez 0 票
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So, you've owned all those samplers and just bought this on a whim without any knowledge of its capabilities? 

Didnt say Roland put out any premiere samplers. Only thing close was the MV's and those were set up too much like their VS multitrack boxes, like a Commodore computer to record music. 

Let me name drop! I've used and owned every MPC ever made minus the rackmounts and I bailed early on the 4000, I mean what was that about. Like an MPC made by korg. I've used less known and used samplers like the Zoom SampleTrax, Boss SP's up to the Roland Sp 555.

Who even mentioned Emu. And, If your going to mention Emu, besides the sound, lets keep it funky. People still using those are probably still playing classic nintendo games and still rocking Mr. T cereal. 

Sad you didn't see the potential in the device but it sounded like an issue that could have been avoided with the back of the box or a quick google search or youtube video. Going to post a video about how disappointed you are, but didnt watch one to see that it has 16 audio tracks. Might want to check on that MPC Live, the effects are garbage and those audio tracks have some caveats. OR! Just buy it, then make a video about how upset you are that the effects suck and the audio tracks have caveats! 

 

Good luck with your production. 

Hasan Some dude -1 票
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Awww, looks like you're sensitive about this issue.  It's ok.  There will be others like myself.  

FYI when this sampler was released there were promises for updates and features.  And it wasn't clear in regards to the 16 sound limitation per scene.  If I'm mistaken please post a video where this was said before it was released.  

And yes I absolutely will post a video clearly detailing it's shortcomings, I'm not getting any kickbacks from pioneer or anyone else to review gear.  If this helps just one person like myself and it costs pioneer a sale then it's all worth it.  Perhaps it will force them to compete.  I'm going to put it right along side Maschine, Push 2 and the MPC Live, all which I own and are much cheaper than the sp16; I also have a full blown nexus 2 system, I plan on attacking the cdj's a bit for the lack of gated cue's.  

Yes all this simply because I'm not happy and can happily afford to buy and sell and inform others before purchasing.  

No luck needed; Production/Remixing, been there done that.  Already have those feathers in my cap.  

Dave The One Mendez 0 票
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Sensitive? Thought we were having a discussion. came out of left field with that one, I got no stake in this. But sometimes I forget what year it is. I'm old school. I do my research, if I make a bad decision, on me. Guess pioneer is at fault for putting a product on the shelves. They have an entire tutorial series that's gets pretty in depth, just like pioneer didn't sit you down and explain the ins and out of the machine to you, I ain't going to send any links, I don't work here.

But have fun with your video. Maybe do a video of a sampler vs a trumpet, they are also instruments. Maschine, the hardware controller teathered to a computer with its own software, cost a grand but you better have a nice computer too, well, 799.99 now, and comes with oodles of soft synths and multiple functionality you capsule only do in software and hit a reasonable price point. Ya, that's a battle.

But no harm no foul, enjoyed the debate.

Pro- tip, don't waste your money on a push. End up using the mouse more than you think. And Maschine, felt weird since i bought it when it was a brand, ya the big one. Felt like I pod a grand for a keyboard controller with pads and a pretty screen. Again, used the mouse a lot, especially with the piano roll and their production quality mixing tools were garbage.

I'll give you this, pioneer is definitely not competing, but who buys a sandwich and says " subway makes a way better sandwich". The guy who is standing next to the guy that says "shoulda went to subway".

Fucking with you homie. Again, good luck.

Hasan Some dude 0 票
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Oh this is definitely on me.  But I'm a PITA.  This is something that can and should be fixed.  

No one wants to take them to task.  

I can absolutely link you to all of their tutorial videos; there's nothing there my friend.  Just tutorials, nothing in depth. 

I do research.  A lot of it.  Again this is completely on me.

I'm in a position where I'm not paid and am happy to do videos.

I do own push 2 and maschine and love them both.  The Toraiz was to detach from the computer and I liked the idea of producing and using the toraiz as part of my dj set but it's just not up to task with stuff old mpc's were capable of.  There's nothing new with the toraiz; limitation is a piss poor idea for a hybrid dj/studio type piece.  

The Mpc live nails everything i'm looking for feature wise in a portable, even things i didnt ask for (the ability to install a hard drive to carry a massive library) 

This was the final straw for me; i'll describe in detail.

I said to myself you know, let me limit myself to the 16 sounds and started loading sounds that I know I use all the time.

So I loaded 2 808 kicks, 2 808 snares,  2 909 kicks, 2 909 snares (both with and without attack) 1 closed and 1 open hi hat for each.  That's 12 pads already.  I also use the 808 maracha and the 909 side stick alot.  Then toms (both of which i like to use) and i was already forced to cut down at this point because i had no bass or synth sounds or chant samples. So then I sacrificed the kicks and snares without the attack and still I was coming up short if I wanted to add toms.  Then I said ok, no layering the 808 and 909 and got frustrated and just stopped.  

What I liked on the old mpc's was the multiple pad banks.  In fact I really liked the 4000, but reason and live came out and I went the MPD route and gave up the 4000.  

I like and dislike the computer alot.  I went from serato to traktor to standalone nexus 2 and love the idea of deejaying with just my usb.  Believe it or not the lack of gated cues forced me back to serato.  If pioneer would just fix that i would never use a computer again other than organizing and analyzing my tracks.  So I have 7,000.00 worth of gear hooked up to a laptop again just so I can have my gated cues.  

MPC Live; I like the idea of creating away from the computer.  Sampling straight in from my nexus 2 system and then being able to sit down and use mpc software on the computer to experiment some more if I wish; the mpc workflow is there plus much more where I don't need the computer at all unless i want vst plugins which isn't a big necessity.  

The effects on the Toraiz; another issue.  I'll just leave it alone.

The 16 sound limit broke my back with this machine and I just can't like it anymore.  It's definitely a financial loss for me; not going bankrupt but i'm losing money on the sale.  

I gotta tell you; denon's sc5000 has the gated cue feature right out of the box and analysis software on board.  If pioneer never fixes the gated cue feature, I'll just be stuck but that's it for pioneer gear ever again if the leave these features out of future upgrades.  

Dave The One Mendez 0 票
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Now we're cooking with gas. Sound like the same dude to some extent. I had a 4000, then got reason and ditched it quick. Had the whole Mackie C$ and Control system with the MPD and realized I kept grabbing the mouse. I work on computers all day, work from home too so its worse, like I never even change environments from work to music. So im totally in agreement with you and the adverse effects of working on a computer all the time. 

One of the reasons I had to get away from the computer were all of the features and capabilities. I remember spending a full 4-5 hours looking at shimmer reverb VST's. Got old quick. So many options. But I feel you on the 16 tracks, definitely a limitation but I was rocking the SP 404 for a long time and made that thing work like a beast with resampling and improvising to find new ways to make music since the MPC kept me in a loop, Sample, chop, play, repeat. 

 

The MPC 2500 with the JJOS has the loop recorder, then things got crazy with overdubbing and arranging straight humanized loops.  So that 1500.00 price tag with such limitations is a pain in the ass for sure. I actually have a MPC live on pre-order just cause I need to see it in person, Probably wont hang on it for too long tho, I'll get back into that MPC loop, the same loop you see if you ever youtube search MPC beatmaking and watch the first 10000 videos. 

I think I just have a disconnect with some of the social media sometimes. The "I dont like stuff so let me tell the world my pain". But again, it aint affecting me, but I thought you looking like a good candidate for a debate, and see, we got through it:) 

 

But yeah, this thing has way too many limitation for that price but Pioneer like Timberland boots, Tims/Trees suck ass in actual winter. Heavy as shit and doesnt keep your feet warm, but they are Tims. But I think I found my way around quickly because of the simplicity of the machine and with a background in shitty samplers, well not shitty, but an SP isnt an MPC (they dont even have ADSR or a screen) but I found myself in the music and not in the samples or the features. I'd load up and sit for hours making something work out of what I got, not what I needed. IT was like, "well, cant do that, so im doing this, yup, this is hot". 

 

But different strokes for different folks. So I get it. Since im happy with the Toriaz now, the updates will only get better from here so I'm cool but I totally understand your issue now that you laid it out. Once you got your workflow, its about finding the machine to make it flow. 

 

Hasan Some dude 0 票
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