Have a feature request or suggestion? Post your idea here!

投稿

5フォロワー フォローする
3
Avatar

XDJ 1000 MK2 Beat Jump

Hi, 

With the release of the new firmware for the CDJ 2000 NXS2s, the unit is not capable of achieving beat jumps up to 16 beats when initially the unit was capable of just 1 BEAT JUMP. In comparison, right of the box the XDJ 1000 MK2 have up to 4 beat jump capabilities. 

Is this expanded feature from the new firmware of the NSX2s rolled out into the XDJ 1000 MK2? If just bought a pair of XDJs yesterday and with the release of the new firmware if this feature is will not be added, I plan to return them.

Bigger Beat Jump increments are important to me. 

Red Beard

正式なコメント

Avatar

I have to bust this myth:

Pioneer has in the past only updated players for necessity vs pleasing current owners as there ideology on products is that if a player works as is intended then they are not likely to bother with adding extra functionality.

This is entirely untrue. Pioneer DJ creates a product with a specific set of functions and goals in mind. Inevitably what happens is the public gets it in their hands and says "Can it do this? Can you improve / change that? This needs to be bigger / faster." By the time it's in your hands, only so much can be changed via firmware, and even the new 16 beat jump functionality on the CDJ-2000NXS2 is maxing out the hardware's capabilities - it was never designed with the intention of having that function, but our clever engineers heard your requests and found a way of shoehorning it in there. They listen to your feedback, complaints, requests, and try to do what's possible with the resources they have available, both within the unit itself and from the engineering side.

Let's be honest, the XDJ-1000MK2 is the second-fiddle to the CDJ-2000NXS2, so of course the CDJ will get priority and updates before the XDJ does, even if they're similar platforms. Does this mean the XDJ will certainly get the same features? No, but as I just said - we've heard your request and I (personally) hope they're able to include it, but I also (personally) understand that if they don't include this feature, it could be because it's not the same unit and simply isn't capable of doing it.

This is a problem with our "update" society - with computers and smartphone, we've come to a certain expectation of having the newest features and functionality simply pushed to us, but as Apple has proven, some older hardware simply isn't capable of receiving all of that functionality, and eventually it does get left to the wayside. It's not about screwing the customer, it's about what's technically and feasibly possible.

Your feedback goes a long way toward improvements, but complaints seldom get anyone anywhere. ;)

PS: I won't even get into all the things they've added for the XDJ-RX since its release because ... 

PPS: Upvoting does nothing except stroke egos. We don't count those. ;)

Pulse
コメントアクション Permalink

サインインしてコメントを残してください。

20件のコメント

2
Avatar

Earlier today I messaged pioneer via Facebook asking if they would push for an update to allow the xdj 1000 mk2 to have more beat jump values.  I have not heard back yet but if history is any inclination I would say its only likely if xdj 1000 mk2 owners continue to voice the importance of such an update.  Pioneer has in the past only updated players for necessity vs pleasing current owners as there ideology on products is that if a player works as is intended then they are not likely to bother with adding extra functionality.  

What you are seeing with the nxs2 update is necessity as Denon pushed Pioneer to do something about a little over a year old product to try and stay on top.  If Pioneer does reply to our messages like the way they have in the past by dismissing our requests,  then clearly they have not learned there lesson.  If they do update the 1000 mk2 then many including myself will have high hopes for Pioneer in the future.  As it would show they are not only listening to there base but also understanding that giving extra features and requests to current devices would further strengthen there brand between themselves and there loyal customers, which intern would allow other customers to see the benefits of investing in the future of Pioneer dj products.  At the end of the day its about money, but lets be honest Pioneer has been greedy with raising prices and trickling functionality for years, I think its time for Pioneer to add features that really is not all that hard to add such as more beat jump options.  

DJ NVASION 2 票
コメントアクション Permalink
1
Avatar

Hey, I'm totally with you on this and hope Pioneer hear the XDJ 1000 MK2 owners. 

Can you share the link of your comment to chime in there too. Also, feel free to upvote this thread so we get more visibility, ergo Pioneer's attention. 

Red Beard 1 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

@Red beard I think the upvote got Pulses attention.  ;)

DJ NVASION 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

Hi Pulse, 

I concur that part of DJ NVASION comment may have crossed the line, but it is a reflect on how part of the customers feel frustrated and you have to bear in mind product/brand forums are not always a space to share nice things...they exist to breach the gap between the brand and the consumer to discuss concerns, issues, and in some cases discuss upcoming features (nowadays handled via user explorations and surveys).  

Customers are quite demanding as the top player, and object of desire to many, is $2000+ per unit and every 2-3 years a new iteration is rolled out; thus becoming a considerable investment in a medium-term. I've read complaint from firmware support that is kinda left in the dark, especially closer to the release of a shinier unit and moreover after that happens.

Today's culture of instant gratification does present a situation to deal with, I see it frustrates you Pulse. From the NXS to older models, I understand the justification it would be harder to expand features as there's little room from the UX perspective to accommodate them, regardless the inherit hardware + software limitation. But I'm don't share that position for the  NXS2 and XDJ unit, as the barrier to expand or add more features is less due to a tactile screen that allows more freedom to the techs to work. Yes, there will always be a limitation on what you can add due to hardware and software limitations. I have experience on this subject, I deal with this everyday at work with the teams I lead, and understand there's a point the machines cannot be pushed as it might compromise the user experience. Saying this, as mentioned in my first comment that the XDJ had more BEAT JUMP capabilities from the start  in comparison to the NSX2 (1 beat only); this wouldn't be such a complicated feat after working this feature on a unit with more limitation on this aspect. But it will take time and it boils down on how relevant is on the backlog of the techs involved and Pioneer.

I understand the XDJ line is second fiddle to the NSX2 player, nothing to discuss on that aspect but...it should be treated with more importance as it is a good alternative for smaller studios and home setups as being budget friendly. So leaving this feature in the dark will be missed opportunity as DJs can buy the XDJs, have almost the same features as a club unit and perform with more confidence in the club and as their budget grow move to the premium unit...just thinking outloud. I understand the statement that beats around the bush on it might, it might not...you're not part of the Tech team but do collaborate with them an might not be able to influence priorities on they backlog...I get it and that's why you can't make a call. I will remain optimistic and hopefully will come after the NSX2 enjoy it first for some time ;)

I'm my case, I'm expressing, as initially, the desire of an improvement I would like to see as part of an upcoming firmware update for the XDJ 1000 MK2; as it seem quite plausible from a technical standpoint. I understand there might be bugs to address first for the implementation in the NSX2s before rolling it out into the XDJs. 

We're not discussing the XDJ-RX, and I'm not interested in it. You guys did a good job with that unit but I'm more eager to know on what we can do for us theXDJ 1000 MK2 users (XDJ 1000 seem quite limited to stretch that far). 

On the upvote remark, thanks for letting me know you don't use this feature in the Pioneer forums I don't care about egos. Usually that purpose of upvotes are to communicate empathy and validating that the point of pain point expressed is shared by more people, thus avoiding spamming the forum with duplicated posts. My intention was to get more visibility on the matter as I would love to have this feature for us the XDJ user, I don't care about my ego, I care about more BEAT JUMP values hehe ;)

Have a good day and thanks for the time invested on the response. Crossing finger this will get rolled out over time. 

 

  


Red Beard 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

@Red Beard > I'm not suggesting NVASION crossed the line by posting what he did, I replied more to address the misconception that Pioneer only pays attention to new products. If that were truly the case, over half of the supported hardware on the rekordbox DJ list wouldn't be there (eg. CDJ-350).

Back in the day, a $2000 CDJ (well, okay, they were less back in the day, but roll with me) didn't need to be updated as often. The technology growth was constant but it did one job - play CDs. It wasn't this fancy computer thing that could / would be updated to include new features. If anything, the fixes were entirely bug-related, and there were much fewer of those to squash due to the simplistic nature of the product. With today's players, the life expectancy is shorter because there's so much change in how we use them (namely with computers) that the changing software forces the hardware to update more often to reflect those software updates. "Oh, you want to use that new FLIP function? Sorry, we don't have buttons for that on this model, but our next one..." So yeah, legacy products can start to feel like they're a background product because the resources on the development end are moved forward to the new products. Bugs are fixed with old hardware, but it's not often that new features are introduced - and as I posted earlier, it difficult-to-near-impossible to implement some of the features that new hardware receives into an update for an older hardware unit simply due to the capabilities and limitations of that older hardware (maybe not enough memory or available power in the DSP).

As for model-placement-priority, any current model is going to get the care and attention, even if it's not the top-dog. When I said the XDJ is second-fiddle to the CDJ, I don't mean to imply it's any less important for our product, manufacturing, sales, marketing, or support teams, just that it doesn't get the global attention that it should. Our best selling product isn't the top-priced unit, it's one of our controllers. But the way our social media and marketing messages are conveyed, most users would never know that because you see the CDJ-2000NXS2 / DJM-900NXS2 everywhere ... to DJs, it's that dream-system, much like many of us used to have the Lamborghini Countach poster on our wall - a dream machine... but how many of us are driving one? ;)

The voting comment was more that we aren't looking at those as an indication of a topic's importance. Its more about how we (the moderator team) see the comments and feedback on any given subject and either push it forward to a ticket, or email, as a product suggestion or item of importance. We also look at the amount of discussion a subject / feature / suggestion receives. If there are thousands of users asking for something that was clearly omitted, that clearly weighs higher than a brilliant idea one DJ had and nobody else seems to care about. There are some tiny errors that only a fraction of the users will experience that will be addressed before a large demand for a new feature or change. We do provide our input on the importance of our feedback, but unfortunately we don't make those calls as it's up to the teams in Japan to allocate the resources and money to address them, so the priority is up to them... and this is why sometimes you'll scratch your head at the inclusion of certain fixes or features but not the big glaring one you discovered and everyone agrees should be fixed (or maybe it's simply that they haven't yet found an adequate solution).

I'm always hopeful that changes and improvements are able to be added to existing products, but in my 18 years of experience with Pioneer DJ, I'm also realistic in my expectations across the board, as I use what's happened in the past to predict what's capable for the future. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, sometimes I'm disappointed, but I always remain hopeful as I'm not just here as a support representative, but also a DJ myself, using these products on a regular basis.

I'm always open for a discussion of what's up and what's what, so please feel free to post your thoughts and ideas. It's better for us to communicate in an open dialogue than to make backhanded statements about things you may know less about than I do... NVASION...

"I think its time for Pioneer to add features that really is not all that hard to add such as more beat jump options."

Don't you think if it were easy they would have done it by now? ;)

Pulse 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

@pulse I really don't think it was a coincidence that the 1.6 firmware update for the cdj nxs2 which allowed more functionality happened around the time Denon revealed the Denon sc 5000. Also the 1.7 firmware update for the nxs2 came out when the Denon sc 5000 units started to be sent out to reviewers and getting positive feedback.  I guess its not all that hard....PULSE....to add features when another company....DENON....is pushing the envelope.  

DJ NVASION 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

You think that the beat jump came out because our competitor released a new product? Like our engineers just whipped it up in a week? Oh yeah, I forgot, you were the one who also thought it wasn't that hard to add more features.

Pulse 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

wow wow wow guys...take it easy, we're a little out of topic. The intention was to explore the possibility on expanding the XDJ 1000 MK2 BEAT JUMP capabilities to 16beats, as his big brother was able to do so... it starting with a "handicap" on this department by featuring only 1 BEAT JUMP; and given the tech specs it seems as a plausible request for a future firmware update ;)

The timing on when it became available on the NXS2 can be out for speculation, but it is kind of a pointless discussion as nothing positive will be extracted from it. Also Pioneer tends to do a push of gear or relevant software updates close to WMC, it starts actually earlier than in some LA events from what I recall...anyway.

When a product is being developed there's a set date to release to the market, and in order to meet that date you have to set priorities on the feature backlog thus affecting how the roadmap will look like. This last part translates on feature that don't make the release; they are handled by: adding them to the next product iteration or via incremental releases. As I don't have visibility to such roadmap, I prefer no speculate on if it was added by the pressure of competition or not...I'm happy the feature is there and would like to see it integrated to the XDJ 1000 MK2.  

On competition, I think it is good and it brings more challenges and opportunities to innovate; the only ones who end up winning are us the customers, as we have more options and features to choose from. We are all involved in a heated conversation of a feature that's not even a week out in production...kinda wish I was a Beta Tester of it hehe as I love BEAT JUMPS and loops, that feature and price was the main driver to buy the pair of XDJs. 

Anyway, I hope we can put any bad blood and condescending comments away...move into a positive vibe to look into a way it might be considered by the tech team to add this feature overtime (2017 maybe). 

Have a good weekend mates!

 

 



Red Beard 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

Yup pretty much!  I never said features in general where easy to implement on current equipment.  It depends on what is being implemented, I said that adding features such as more beat jump options would be easier but not just any feature in general. 

Others including myself have address there opinions, concerns and requests.  We also have years of experience working with pioneer in the consumer side of things and know how Pioneer has addressed issues and firmware updates and requests in the past.  I can only speak for myself and only assume others like myself take the time to either vent, talk about things and ask for requests and have opinions that are based off past experiences with pioneer but also more importantly take the time in doing so because we are invested in Pioneer and want to continue to invest in the future of Pioneer.  

Have a great weekend people I think I said enough, I can't wait to see what Pioneer has in store in the near future.   

DJ NVASION 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
1
Avatar

good news guys!

finally 8 & 16 beatjump has been added on 1.3 firmware update!

you will have access to 8&16 beatjump by using sp1 & xp1 (not available on xdj1000mk2)

IL Kim 1 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

I just updated my XDJ 1000mk3 and the 8 & 16 beatjump aren't showing on the screen. It would be great to have some visual feedback similar to the CDJ 2000 NXS2; especially when using the XP1 (on its way).

Red Beard 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

Yes it doesnt show in the screen, however you get access to 8&16 beatjump with sp1 & xp1

IL Kim 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

thanks! can't wait to have my xp1 soon to test it out. 

Red Beard 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar
  • hello! It is time to update the beat jump in the xdj 1000 mk2, the new cdj 3000 has 64 jumps ... the engineers will have learned something about it with the subject ...
Adrian Oliver Salazar 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink
0
Avatar

@Adrian > Sorry, it's limitations in the hardware that do not allow for large beat jumps on the XDJ-1000MK2.

Pulse 0 票
コメントアクション Permalink