With Akai set to bring another standalone sampler/sequencer to market, Pioneer needs to flesh the Toraiz out ASAP if they want to stay competitive. We need a full featured MIDI sequencer along with all of the other features they are currently working on in future updates. The Akai will most certainly have its issues as well but it's guaranteed they will release with at least a powerful sample engine and sequencer.
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I was wondering when the first post about the MPC Live would hit this forum :)
Yes, competition is always a good thing.
At the end of the day, UI and features are important. So is sound quality. I think that is one of the strengths of the Toraiz, particularly with the P6 filters.
But, yes, hopefully this will keep Pioneer on their toes!
I agree with you Simon and also if they listen to what the user wants for updates this thing will be a beast!!!
SO PIONEER PLEASE LISTEN!!!!
I think the MPC Live may be a hoax. If not, I'm afraid the Toraiz may not be able to break out of the DJ market. Akai already invented the wheel and it looks like Pioneer is only in the "process" of inventing the wheel - per say.
I think the market has already spoken with regards to how they want that "wheel" to perform. I too, hope that Pioneer listened. "Remove that 32 second sample playback limitation". - please.
I would love to see the 32 second sample limit removed too, but I am fortunate in that I have an Octatrack which can cover this for me.
I really wonder whether it is a technical limitation or a marketing decision so as not to overlap with / cannibalise sales of their other products, though to be honest, I don't really see the Toraiz being the one and only device a DJ would use for a live set if the 32 second limit was removed.
Maybe Pioneer are keeping this up their sleeve as a big reveal, for a time when they feel they need more thunder in the market. Or, maybe >32 secs will just simply mess up the CPU / disc streaming.
Those are golden questions and so far, completely unanswered by Pioneer. My best "guess" is that Pioneer is protecting their CDJ. Only Pioneer knows that answer and it might just stay that way too.
At the end of the day it's about workflow and the MPC workflow is much different than most offerings on tap.
People who are after the Toriaz workflow won't really be tempted by the MPC, and visa versa, the feedback on the MPC forum regarding the SP-16 pretty much already tells you that....
I was using a combination of Ableton Live and a Feeltune Rhizome, in the same way that I'm using the SP-16, and that workflow isn't anywhere near the MPC approach, but again that's just one approach.
You guys are kidding right? No way Toraiz should even be considered now that the mpc is coming out. The Toraiz software is useless/basic as hell. The filter and a couple of extra outputs don't warrant the extra £500. At all. Glad to see akai come out with this and put pioneer in their place. It destroys the Toraiz in a million ways. Ridiculous how much pioneer have been asking people to pay for this shallow unit. It should be £950 tops. Super arrogant of pioneer to step in to an area they seem to have no knowledge on and price the Toraiz the way they did. Hope they lose a ton of money on it and in future put value for money a little higher up their list of objectives...
I agree that as featured, the Toraiz is way too expensive. That being said, it does something no MPC has ever done which is quality, on the fly time stretching and keeping sample loops in sync with incoming midi clock. This feature, along with the intuitive UI, sound quality and the extra outputs are why I still have it. I've owned a couple Octatracks and I absolutely cannot stand their UI. I've also been an MPC user for 20yrs now and while I am excited about the prospect of a new standalone MPC, I am also quite confident Akai will drop the ball on it. If Pioneer adds the features they say they will along with a fully featured midi sequencer and some other bells and whistles, they will have a product that can stand toe to toe with anything else in its price range. As it is now, it's extremely useful in my studio but is way overpriced for what it does.
Apparently the Akai v2 software covers timestreching and also has a mode that mimics ableton live clips view. Game over for toraiz unless they totally revamp the OS and knock £500 off the price... And even then Id probably rather go with the mpc cos it's rechargable battery for sofa jams and fully intergrates as a controller with the software inside a daw too.. Seriously can't see any reason to even consider the Toraiz now?
I'm looking forward to checking it out but like I said, I am confident Akai will find a way to disappoint.
I know what you mean about akai probably screwing it up in some way. But their OS for computers is already way advanced on toraiz + v2 is said to have significant improvements. As long as it doesn't constantly crash I'd say they already have it in the bag.. Pioneer won't be able to get anywhere near the mpc software depth within the next year or two. It's taking them forever to even get the basics together. And if they did catch up then the mpc will already be on the next page by then.. Akai are fully committed to the software development as it runs across all their controllers etc.. pioneer suck for the way they stepped in with toraiz at this price. Big company doing users zero favours and charging over the odds... Total opposite of what behringer have just done with the Deepmind synth. Lame.
Well there you have it Jay- enjoy your new, soon to be released, maybe in the future, hope they get this one right, and don't abandon it product.
like I said earlier, it's all about workflow, and at the end of the day these products will be at completely different ends of the spectrum.
Akai will always retain the majority of MPC fans, who prefer its long term way of doing things....
I'm pretty confident with Pioneer and it having a future spot saved for the SP-16
I never owned an mpc before and will only buy the MPC Live if reviews are favourable. Happy enough with my Octatrack for the main part but polyphonic tracks and battery power are pretty huge appeals for the MPC. Dunno what you mean about workflow tho? The Toraiz has nothing unique against the MPC in this area unless I've missed something? I'm sure Toraiz will get developed in to something less embarrassing for pioneer, tho it could take a year+ before it begins to resemble anything approaching being at the front of the pack in terms of functionality as it's price tag suggests, tho I can't see that ever happening TBH. I don't see anything innovative etc in their road maps. And that price tag is never gonna be justified IMHO...
Have you ever actually used an MPC? Have you ever used the Toraiz? I am not really understanding what you are basing your steadfast opinions on having no first hand experience with either box. I have owned at least 6 MPCs over the last 20yrs and currently own and use the Toraiz. The only MPC I would give the Toraiz up for right now is a 3000 and only because it's worth $.
The new standalone mpcs will run the (new version of the) software that mpc touch runs on computer. Which is basically toraiz on steroids. Plenty of YouTube videos put there... Nothing like the old mpc firmware. And familiar to anyone that's used a ton of different Beatmaking software/apps... Doesn't take a genius with years of experience on a unit to see what the functions are and get a grip on the workflow....
Looks like they added midi sequencing! BOOM!
That manual just outlines staple features for a sampler/sequencer that should have been there from day one... Great news if you bought one already but pretty 'meh' looking in from outside...
Then... Don't buy one. You have no horse in the race. Why are you here?
The mpc has 2 sets of midi in and out plus USB midi hosting... And possibly almost 'unlimited' tracks if old mpc are anything to go by...
Not sure why I'm here. Just tired of users getting screwed over on hardware pricing.. Naive idea that if everyone bitches and boycotts then prices might become more sensible. You guys seem to enjoy it tho...
Thanks for the concern. We'll be ok. This update is major. Adding 4 note polyphonic midi sequencing, a flexible, clockable LFO that can modulate any parameter per step, rendering tracks as 24bt wav files, more flexible effects routing, new effects, new arrangement tools, etc. Getting there.
Definitely rounds off the Toraiz much better after the update. Good news and glad to hear pioneer are keeping promises to users. Think they're still gonna have to take another look at the price tag tho if they want any more people to buy now that the mpc is announced. Obvs that depends on how solid the Akai is. But if they're basically porting existing software across it should be pretty painless. In any case, they're both useful boxes. Just think that the Toraiz has to make up some very serious ground and go beyond staple features now to justify its price tag since there is cheaper, deeper, portable competitors in the market now..
well hopefully pioneer will steal some ideas, remove the 32 second sample limit, and add all the missing shit in between and improving the time stretching to CDJ or ableton level, and having more stretch modes and trigger modes. Also sample looper needs to be implemented well. I agree the mpc live is lookin pretty good right now.
Does the MPC live have unlimited clip/sample lengths and live looping?
It already beats the toraiz in that it has a multi-touch screen, more memory, a battery, 2 USBs, 2 midi ins, SD card reader, swapable harddrive, and is lighter.
What does toraiz have over the MPC live? Some fancy filters that I'll use maybe for 2 seconds in a song, definitely cooler looking pads, and those step sequence buttons at the bottom that I do use pretty often. Not sure if those buttons and the filters are worth an extra $300.
If the MPC has live looping and long sample lengths I'm probably selling my toraiz on ebay... I'm glad I kept the box.
Yup... Bitter sigh.
Don't think of the limitations as a road block. Think of them as a creative challenge that could lead you in directions you would have never thought of before.
Yeah, thanks, but no. At such a price tag, I don't even want to think, and I don't expect to face challenges against a $1,500 tool. I want it to allow me to produce something concrete and as fast as possible - while having fun, why not, as an extra feeling. When the MPC Live was still a couple of leaked photos, it was already burying the Toraiz. If only it had been leaked a couple of days earlier, I wouldn't have pulled the trigger on the SP. Sigh...
Why did people pay $1500 for the Pioneer if what they really wanted was an MPC? I don't get it. I've owned several MPCs over the years. Different market.