Open-Source OS, so people can help with features

Hello Pioneer Team,

here is a serious suggestion for opensourcing the OS, like Google Android did and helped it become number 1 in the phone market:

Assumed Toraiz is running Linux system, there is a growing crowd out there who are very capable talents with open source improvements. Just look at elk audio os ( https://elk.audio/audio-os/ ), and the whole raspberry crowd, this scene is huge and tries to make Linux run open on all kinds of hardware like xbox, which became kodi, playstation, even nintendo switch :)

Now imagine people adding new FX, new features and for any of this nice stuff added, Pioneer gets the code for free f put under opensource licenses and public, e.g. if the code is on github or similar system, people can collaborate and join to add features, fix bugs etc. So Toraiz SP-16 could become HUGE now and in afterlive market and help prepare mk2 or other devices in the future. Just an idea for Pioneer to think about it, as they dont sell software only, they sell the bundle with awesome hardware which when using great software and allows customized linux, could be a huge selling point for all kinds of people (think of how people love to customize their gear with stickers, changing knobs, colorize etc., now imagine allowing a personalized startscreen while booting, etc. :)

Maybe Pioneer is what their name implies... a Pioneer in this sector :)

Harry Tuttle 2020年06月27日 21:22

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Gentlemen, this is a great topic. As someone who has worked for both Elektron and Pioneer DJ, I can tell you that this kind of thing is very exciting, and the possibilities are so appealing and alluring, but the practicality is EXTREMELY low. I have suggested the same things and been equally as excited by the possibilities. I like your ideas about visual customization a lot, Harry.

I share your enthusiasm for this, I really do...but I gently request that you think about the implications of this before letting expectations run wild. Every change to the OS creates a new OS. Which one will be the official one? How many OS versions would a company be expected to support and troubleshoot for paying customers? The support resources alone would be immense. Even if that were managed somehow, the interconnectedness of the embedded code on standalone hardware music devices is intense--and so the ability to create problems in other areas of the OS by opening code to user changes, even small ones, is a pandoras box of very unhappy customers who expected something to work and then had their machine crash on stage at a paid gig. Pioneer DJ products need the stability to be relied on by industry professionals getting paid to keep a show going. Open source is not popular in the mainstream pro-level MI world yet for a reason. Korg has toyed with this with their xxxxlogue series, just with the effects engine...it seems to be working ok, so, there's hope on the horizon, but it's a very small chunk of code in a very confined space.

Rhythm Droid 2020年07月20日 16:08

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That would be absolutely awesome!

But I don't think, that this will ever happen.

And I think, Toraiz has stopped reading this forum.

I really think about moving to elektron, because they have the more modern features in their devices.

Torben 2020年07月06日 09:27 0 票

Out of curiosity, Torben, which of the Elektron products or features are alluring to you? Which Pioneer DJ products are you currently working with?

Rhythm Droid 2020年07月20日 16:10 0 票

Thank you Rythm Droid for your response!

Of course you are right that maintaining many versions would not be great for Pioneer. In reality though, I could envision it would be similar to Google and Android:

There is one official version, thats of course pre-installed with the hardware and anyone updating/flashing to a "homebrew" version (available elsewhere on fansites) knows that any warranty for those is not done by Google (or the manufacture, in case of Pioneer would be the same).
So this is likely not a problem, nothing really changes for Pioneer on their side. On the positive side, people will talk about the possiility of running customized versions and try out homebrew OS, which might have new features, add functionality not yet in official OS versions or explore totally new experimental sides. It is true that Android added many new features into official OS only after they were introduced and tried out on AOSP / Cyanogenmod (now Lineage) first.

Another recent company who goes this way is MOD Devices:

https://wiki.moddevices.com/
https://github.com/moddevices

Think of the possibility like to use Linux on an older, long out of support laptop or tablet, which could breathe new life into some older HW models, that Pioneer doesnt (need to) support anymore, but users can still updgrade, if some people care and retroactively support older models, like most phones still get updates even if no official OS is released. So not much changes on Pioneer side, but a very good incentive to buy Pioneer gear (even older models and second hand market) due to long term support by homebrew scene! Then Pioneer could benefit from code flowing upstream, since they hold the license still opensource AND commercial, and decide what to upstream or not.

You are also right, that this is probably not so interesting for DJs (who knows), who expect an official state (but then which one, if the owner doesnt update ;)
I would predict though much more so for owners using the SP-16 for homeproduction and in studios. People who are exploring the homebrew option very likely know what they doing, and like on phone, will know to take care of saving any data first, etc.

It would be such a novelty for a bigger player in the market to go that route, especially if Pioneer has such a great device with touchscreen which would benefit from the posisbilities this brings compared to more rigid HW, which is cumbersome to work on to begin with due to supersmall monochrome, nontouchable screens, etc.

Just some food for thought and thanks again for at least dicussing it :)

Harry Tuttle 2020年07月20日 17:26 0 票

@Rhythm Droid
Digitakt and Digitone

The Trigger-Conditions are massive
Pattern-Chaining is possible
The Parameter locks are unbelievable
Yes, the Parameter Locks are working for samples/sounds, too => You can have Kick, Snare, Hats, Claps in one pattern. In combination with the Trigger-Conditions => endless possibilities

On the Squid? Only "Trig Prob" for the whole pattern ... :-(
On the Squid? Trigger-Conditions? What is this?
On the Squid? Pattern-Chaining? Hu?

On the SP-16? Only one Sound per Track. You can workaround with samples slices. But that's not very convenient.
On the SP-16? Sound get's cut off, when muting.
On the SP-16? Effects as Inserts not as sends. That is completely nonsense for a delay.

Sorry, to say that, but the gear from Toraiz feels like last century for me...

I own the Squid and the SP-16.

The Squid is nearly a total dissapointment.

So many wrong design-decessions:

You have 64 Patterns per Track, but only 16 Pattern Sets in total? Who thought, that would be a cool feature?

The Squid is a nice machine, if you want to jam a litte bit around.

But for a serious Live-Set of about 1 or 2 hours it is not the right gear.

At least for me... ;-)

Torben 2020年07月22日 15:13 0 票

@Torben, yes, I hear you on those particular workflow features on the Elektron products. Many of those have been mentioned to the development team as potential items in an OS update, but some not yet, so I will convey them. Thank you for your input.

@Harry, it is truly an opportunity that is waiting to be taken advantage of...

Rhythm Droid 2020年07月30日 02:23 0 票

I totally support the idea of an open OS for the SP-16, I think I can speak for everyone owning and loving this machine using it as a professional sampler in a home studio, not as a DJ.

This could make this machine legend with all the unused creative resources out there.

It could also be done this way: Pioneer DJ could release a firmware with long requested features even if the fear making the machine/OS instable. Which was the main reason for not activating second fx slot etc. Just call it "experimental features" and implement all kinds of requested ones giving you the option of disabling them by an on/off switch. This way no one is to blame using this being warned that the machine could be unstable and the userbase is doing the beta testing for you guys.

Win-win.

It's like the experimental features in web browser, use at your own risk.

JJOS is the No 1 reason why I am using the MPC 1000 / 2500 still up to this day and the same in another form could happen for the SP-16.

Thanks in advance for the good work.

Roy Stroebel 2020年09月17日 08:56 0 票