Question for those Dj's with thousands of songs in WAV form

Sorry for my rant guys.

I just don't know how or why any sane man or woman would put themselves through this torture if they had to do thousands of songs so I thought maybe there was some simple trick that I was unaware of or some light would shine down on me and the seceret would just hit me. I just have to wonder about the sanity of these DJ's that have thousands of WAV formats and sits there adding artwork and all the BS WAV format has to offer when using RB. I know once it's done it's just adding new songs here and there but I can't see anyone really enjoying the madness??? Does anyone?

where is that magic button the autofills the artwork, MIK and seperates the artist and title into correct places?

Even if Pioneer could figure out how to get just one or 2 of these things done so that the DJ doesn't have to do it, that alone would be a blessing.

Do you add tags and cover art to the WAV files in rekordbox? If you are then I think it's bad idea because the tags and cover art are not stored in the file itself, it's just stored in the rekordbox database. That means if you want to use your WAV files in another software in the future then they're still untagged...

I suggest that you convert your WAV files to AIFF files, it's both lossless formats but it's possible to tag, add cover art and save it in the AIFF file.

After the conversion, then add the info, artist, title, year, label, cover art, etc. in a tag editor (I'm using iTunes).

Note! cover art pictures should be in the format  .jpg or .jpeg and not larger than 800x800 px. (files larger than 800x800 can not be displayed on the CDJ-2000, CDJ-2000NXS).

Import your AIFF files to rekorbox and analyze beatgrid and key information!

In the future I suggest that you buy AIFF files instead of WAV files, Beatport AIFF's has tags and cover art so you just have to import them to rekordbox.

This is my workflow (I'm using a Mac)

1. Buy AIFF from Beatport

2. Import AIFF files to iTunes

3. Drag the AIFF files from iTunes to Mixed In Key

4. Check that all tags is correct, if not I correct them in iTunes

5. Import AIFF files to rekordbox via iTunes Bridge

6. Analyze beatgrid and key in rekorbox

7 Start mixing! :)

I hope this helps!

As mentioned above the wav format doesn't natively support tagging. My entire Rekordbox is in wav format (about 3000 tracks) & I have no issues about tagging, after all cover art is just a picture for what? to look pretty on a CDJ.

Granted, Rekordbox's way of sorting wav doesn't really work with tags as it can only do it by filename so I use an Excel spreadsheet which can be manipulated in any way possible. Also I have a macro that can read in the bpm midi signal from a djm800 & at the click of a button displays all the tracks in the right bpm/key range. Incidentally I used MIK not RB to analyze keys but that's a different debate altogether.

In summary wavs don't support tagging so no easy way round it but you're listening to your music in the best possible quality.

would love to see a youtube on thst excell, never worked with it so i would have to watch and learn

Ok, I broke down and purchased Itunes cloud thing. It's doing its thing now. I do have a question. I buy songs from Juno Download and they offer FLAC. I know Pioneer does not support FLAC but my idea is. Juno allows me to download the songs I just bought straight to Itunes. First does Itunes support FLAC? If so can I convert FLAC files at Itunes into AIFF? My thought here is, the artwork, year and all is in FLACK and would stay as it is coverted to AIFF saving time? If I can do this would I want to?

Good idea or not?

Or my other idea is to beg Pioneer to have its own cloud that does the same as Itunes, charge me $24.95 a year and is meant stickly for RB... ;-) But seriously to my first question

As I started messing with Itunes... Converting wav to aiff, there is no 24 bit sample rate only 16. So why did I buy wav? Another reason I dislike Itunes. Back to the drawning board.

Well I'm not sure who I should bitch at, Pioneer or Juno? I just looked at my wav files in RB and they are 16, not 24 like Juno claims. SO is Pioneer at fault here or Juno? Meaning why does RB show WAV 16 bit?

You don't have to bitch at anyone because Juno doesn't sell 24-bit WAV files....It's 16-Bit. 

I agree with your comments Justin.. (Although I am concerned that we buy using wave are living in the dark ages) (but I trust wav's.)

To the forum reps please see my unanswered post which directly relates to Justin's issues.

Would it be possible to obtain an answer...

http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/23038926-Rekordbox-WAV-files-

Quick advice from someone who's been in the DJ and music industry for almost 25 years: there's nothing wrong with using MP3's. I won't go into the basics of digital audio, sound, acoustics, compression, etc (which every good DJ should know BTW), but whoever says that there is AUDIBLE difference between a lossless and compressed formats is fooling themselves, or must have bionic hearing. It is virtually impossible to distinguish a quality, properly compressed format file with an uncompressed one, especially when it comes to EDM (much of which has been semi-professionally produced/mastered/remixed/bootlegged), performed in a noisy nightclub or live stage environments, where acoustics and most sound systems are average at best. If you honestly do hear a difference between a QUALITY 320kbps CBR mp3 and aiff or wave, then I'd suggest getting a better encoder. For any DJ, it is more important to properly work the EQ, adjust SPL, reduce distortion, and most importantly control the floor and the energy. On a side note, unless you produce most of the music you play, it's also next to impossible NOT to use MP3's, since it's the only format available on most sites, legal or otherwise, not to mention that some of the most unique and interesting productions can be found in MP3 only.

Koobah, I agree with what you're saying about not noticing the difference  but I'm like to make a couple of points:-

1. " If you honestly do hear a difference between a QUALITY 320kbps CBR mp3 and aiff or wave, then I'd suggest getting a better encoder" - if someone else has encoded the file then you've relied on them to encode it properly. Fine 95% of the time but some people just don't know what they're doing.

2. I've not not had 1 single freeze with my CDJs / Rekordbox link using wavs. Using mp3s however & it happens, again, because the encoding of a particular track is crap.

Going back to original topic, it would be nice, as has been asked before, for Rekordbox to inteligently recognise artist, title & version from a wav's filename.

I have had ears for 34 years.. and i can tell the difference between compressed and lossless files with ease...

It is very noticable with live instrument music..

It is also very noticable with electronic music..

With regards to the production of electronic music..    The compression of a high hat to achieve the correct sound and feel against the compression of a bass kick is completly different... (meaning that they are compressed at different rates.) When the mp3 encoder goes to work it compresses the whole file at a rate specified... generally 320kbps constant stereo.

Beatport.com   &   Junodownload.com for lossless formats Koobah (if the genres are to your liking..) and discogs.com for second hand CD productions from days gone bye.....  Sadly i no longer purchace vinyl.. mainly due to the fact that it is pressed on sub 180gsm vinyl on pressing plants that have seen better days.....

Koobah you could not be more correct in saying that EQ,ing of music while in the mix is one of the most important aspects of good balance and structured mixes.. I would be lost without my EQ's on the DJM800.. i just wish they would put another midrange on there like the Allen n Heath mixers..

FILENAME STRUCTURES

This is mine..

[ARTIST] SONGNAME (MIX) (YEAR MONTH) -KEY.WAV

Its very simple to code a database query to add information within special character fields of a filename such as [ARTIST] OR (YEAR MONTH) And add them to the slave tags within RekordBox..  It can be done simply with MYSQL & PHP.

Pioneer, lets get this one sorted... i too long for the day when i can download a file, rename it and have it up and running within rekordbox in seconds.....

Im with you on this one Justin Smith & DJ Phallus..

Justin

I must say, RB has been very stable for me. I have not had RB freeze/crash on me (though there are some entries in the crash log, not sure why), but I am anal when it comes to file quality and organizing. Unlike most guys, I edit, adjust, encode, write tags to all my files by myself. Yes, it is much more time consuming than simply throwing downloaded files on the laptop, but that's the way I do it. It's worth mentioning that the condition of your machine and the state of the OS play a big role when it comes to reliability. I personally have 2 dedicated laptops with SSD's, one main and the other as backup, none of which have ever been connected to the internet. Basically nothing on them other than OS and RB. I am more upset at RB's lack of useful features and options that when implemented could make this software a truly capable one, but that's another subject.

@ Oakstream

I swore a Google search at one time stated they did and the link was to Juno... :-( I understand Beatport is also 16Bit.

Itunes has talked about 24bit but as far as I know it's still 16. But even at 24 Bit at Itunes (One day) they don't sell music I mix for the most part.

Juno being 16 bit only, I guess Itunes is back in the picture. lol

All but my MP3 are AIFF now. I'm adding MIK and Artwork/year to songs.

I did add art work through Itunes (Manual) and when I copied and played the title in windows media player no art work was shown. So I'm guessing art work doesn't attach to AIFF? Or does it? How do I get it to stay from now to the end of time? I thought this was one of the main points of switching from wav to aiff?

I think your right Justin... I read something somewhere that said iTunes does not embed artwork into aiff files natively ... I'm guessing tha you will have to find a program that will add aiff tagging data and add the picture from there...

Do a web search for the problem an I hope all will be explained...

An E-Mail from Juno download

Hi,

Thanks for your message.

AIFF is coming soon - along with ALAC and FLAC.

Hopefully 6-8 weeks.

Thanks,

Customer Service Juno Records http://www.juno.co.uk

Of course you can add artwork in iTunes to AIFF files! Right click on the track in iTunes and add artwork to the last tab. See attached picture (it's in Swedish but you'll understand).

Be sure to use .jpg or. jpeg and not larger than 800x800px if you want the cover art to show up on the CDJ-2000/CDJ-2000NXS

@ Oak. I know you can but it doesn't stay if you move the file to desktop and or open with something like WIndows Media player.

It's embedded in the file but Windows Media Player can't show it, but you can see the cover art in rekordbox and iTunes, right?

How do I test it? I understand ITunes/RB however of course it will show up in Itunes as that's where I am making the adjustments and Rekordbox is compatiable with Itunes. However I'd like to use a player that doesn't give a damn about Itunes and just plays AIFF and see if the art shows up? Or does the player have to be Itunes compatiable being AIFF?

I guess it really doesn't matter now. I'm buying AIFF from now on from beatport and Juno in 2 months. Even if I don't use Itunes for RB one day, I will still use AIFF as that is what I will be saving them as. Unless I delete a folder and have to redownload again, I should be fine once it is all setup.

Before I do something stupid. I just want to make sure I don't need to save my artwork folder once I attach it to the track in Itunes.

I know RB is not the same but in RB you can add artwork but if you bump the artwork folder the wrong way RB cries it can't find the file and to relocate it. I just want to make sure as I have been burned plenty with RB that once I add the artwork to Itunes I can delete the artwork folder on my PC (it doesn't use a path like RB does)? I know it sounds like a dumb question and I think I already know the answer but last thing I want to do is think and not know and later be like, why didn't you ask before you deleted the artwork folder.

Once all my artwork is added to the Itunes songs. I can delete all the artwork off my PC as it is now apart of the songs file?

Thank you OAK! 

Been working on everything, scared as shit RB has had me but all seems good with AIFF, Itunes etc... I'm not using Itunes now but I did add artwork and all through them. I deleted everything Itunes and pictures saved and all is good. 

My only concern was AIFF and android in my car but I found an AIFF player in market apps. As soon as Juno releases everything in AIFF things will improve on my end. I'm not sure if there is a cliff with using AIFF just yet but it seems to be my best option. Thanks again!

You're welcome!

I purchase all of my music from Beatport in AIFF format.

Beatport tags their AIFF files with info and artwork automatically, saving a lot of work in Rekordbox.

That said, every track I import into Rekordbox does require manual beat grid adjustment, cue point markers, and some minor tag tweaks to match my preferred nomenclature.  I allow Rekordbox to analyze my keys because in my personal testing it has done a better job than Mixed In Key.  I keep the standard key notation in the Key Field, and use Camelot Notation in the Comments Field.

I probably spend about 60-90 seconds prepping each track I import into Rekordbox.  As long as you are diligent with your prep work, it won't get away from you to badly.

As for your back catalog, why don't you just tag them and grid them as you need them?  Surely you can't plan to be using every track in your collection at every gig?  Why don't you prep a playlist for an upcoming gig, and then work on tagging the tracks in the playlist.  Then do the same thing next time, and just tag those?  By breaking the job into smaller portions it might be more bearable?

I buy all my tracks as FLAC, then run them through MixedInKey.  MIK and Rekordbox is only 80% accurate, and there are various things I don't like about the default tags provided by the vendors, which leads me to the next step:

From there, I load them up into tag&rename and start the tagging work.  I sort the file list then enque a playlist to foobar2000.  While foobar is playing tracks, I am verifying rough tempo and key, while making necessary corrections in tag&rename.  For the record, I tag 'camelot# - key' (in sharps notation) into the comment field and completely ignore the Rekordbox key tag.  Once satisfied, the files are renamed [artist] - [tittle] then the next step:

Files are then converted from FLAC to both AIFF and MP3 using dbPowerAMP.  The MP3 files are used for offline work (phrasing and mash-up studies) in Mixmeister to minimize wear and tear on my 2000's.  AIFFs are used in Rekordbox and the decks.  FLACs are then discarded.  Now, here's where it gets really annoying:

dbPowerAMP, tag&rename, mixmeister and windows7 can only deal with ID3v2.3 tags.  Rekordbox seems to only write v2.4 tags.  Any editing done by Rekordbox will make certain fields (if not all) vanish from the OS and the other apps.

Keeping tags synchronized between formats required some pretty elaborate scripting.  My offline work being mainly on MP3s means that library is the 'master' from a tagging perspective.  AIFFs are the 'master' from a performance perspective.  So I wrote a perl script to push tag changes from the MP3 to the AIFF libraries *this was not easy!*  Especially so, because of the ID3v2.3 vs. 2.4 version issue, and the fact there is no real good AIFF tag manipulation module available for perl.  Doing it for FLAC would be trivial, BTW.

Tag&Rename supports manipulation of WAV tags (ID3 in the broadcast RIFF chunk) but dbPowerAMP does not, so you could in theory convert your library to AIFF and write a script to push the tags over, but it might be a gnarly bit of code...

pope, i dont know what to say. 

i guess i just hope rekordbox will be complete system of sorts that does everything a DJ would want to make all thiit close to perfect as i can get without a bunch of bss as painless as possiable. 

im not buying any format besides aiff from now on. 

probably the most stupid question ever, but why is there no such a thing as the MP3 ID3 tag available for WAV? Should be pretty easy to implement for engeneers? no?

I found this on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3 ("The same could be accomplished in WAV, but isn't. The only tagging system in wide usage for WAV is the Broadcast Wave Format, stored as a RIFF chunk.").

If tagging was available for WAV I would use it without a doubt, now I just use MP3 because it is more practical...