CDJ 2000 firmware 4.04 pitch not same as 4.01

i used 4.01

i use my decks most days

i own 2 cdj - 2000's

i own 1 cdj 900

im now using the latest firmware

ive done 2 live shows on it

i dont see a problem?

I dont know mate. Do you see a problem ??

No but then i dont use MT either.

When I turn MT on the problem is known and it hasnt been developed at all I think. But clearly me and some other ppl have some drifting problems with MT off when I am mixing for long time (for example 2 mins). Its not so big problem like when MT is on and its correctable if you use the jog wheel. But I used to mix same tracks with previous firmware version and this drifting didnt exist. With 4.01 after monitoring, the tracks where locked.

With 4.04 it  also happens to me if I play same track in both cdj2000s and pitch at 0%.

Please try mix 2 same tracks and after monitoring report if the tracks were locked all the way or at a point you had to correct the beatmatch. 

Thanks for your reply. Maybe its my mind playing games... :p

A friend above in this thread asked a question and there was no answer I think, so I will ask again and hope for an answer...

"Should two tracks analysed in RB showing the EXACT BPM reading simply lock together when playing at the same tempo ?"

PS. In ver 4.01 used to lock together.

just tested this out for you and i have all three decks working fine @ +10

is your content analyzed in normal or dynamic?

I analyse in normal and use usb stick in one of the decks and link in the other or two  seperate usb sticks. Usually I mix soul, house, techno music.

The thing is that I didnt change the way I analyse the tracks and didnt change the tracks either. Clearly I can here a difference between firmware ver 4.04 and ver 4.01.

And its not so long time since I updated to ver 4.04 so not to remember. Then again maybe I am wrong...

The drifting is not so huge. Just a tiny drift which you can correct by moving the jog wheel just a bit forward or back. What I am saying is that before I update to 4.04 didnt had to worry at all. Now I have make sure two tracks stay together all time.

Thanks for testing. What kind of music and in what BPM do you usaully mix?

I mostly mix 120 BPM to 128 BPM tracks the most..

Also the tracks I mix dont have huge difference in BPM. For exaple I dont mix 120bpm track with another track that is128bpm. So the percentage I move the pitch (usually +6) is not so much.

I play allsorts but just test this on a house track @ 121 bpm

Thanks mate for your patience to check it

ola. bom amigos sou novato aki no forum e queria dizer a todos que ate o presente momento naum tive problema algum com os meus cdj 2000

uso e responde perfeitamente, e sei tambem que pode ter acontesido sim de os engenheiros da pioneer por fim em alguns bugs, e na nova versão pode ter surgidos novos bugs mais aki nos meus 2000 ta tudo trankilo. e sei tambem que com toda certeza os engenheiro iram encontrar a formula perfeita pra que o cdj 2000 seja realmente o top de todos os ja lansados pela industria pioneer. na verdade ninguem e perfeito mais tenho certeza que em meios tantas reclamações sobre o cdj 2000 os engenheiros com certeza iram resolver ese bug.

abrass. a todos.Mário Santoro

queria dizer tambem que ja usei os melhores cd player do mercado. e digo pra bater no cdj2000 ainda to por ver.

Actually, there's been a thread in the Rekordbox forum recently, that pointed out the effect of using wav files instead of mp3s:

http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/20216488-file-type-makes-the-difference

As its author makes it clear, jumping over the mp3->wav conversion step seems to solve many, if not all, the problems related to MT and drift:

"cdjs are running with the speed of light in search and loading tracks..also no crashes in rekordbox since I imported everything through the itunes bridge..have to say that accurate looping is not an issue anymore and master tempo quality has been improved....Finally I think Wav files is the way to go..or...i imagine things??"

If any of you having this pitch problem can systematically reproduce it with the same tracks, try to convert them to wav and test again... That could be the key to the issue!

But cdj2000 is a proffesional multi player and should support all type of music files the manual says it does. Why should I convert my mp3s to wavs in order to work ?? I think is more correct to provide us with an update that is working plus I also find it more correct to be able to reset the player and install any firmware I like.

sure, I entirely agree with you. But if playing wavs improves the playback and pitch/MT/drift, then it gives a clear indication to the engineers that this is the way to investigate the problem.

true

Interesting point re the music files as I play 320 mp3 files. A couple more observations from me; the BPM does seem to change on the players a little bit only by very small fractions but not to the point where it makes mixing too difficult. 

MT is the root of all evil for me - totally useless which is really disappointing as I play deep / tech house and techno which means I have BPM variance between 115-130 so harmonically mixing is a no no. Unless I cheat using Traktor.

I still would like people's view about how tight mixes should be for two different  analysed tracks with the same BPM - should these mix withour drift ? If so no firmware versions have ever accomplished that. 

Here as well, seems mp3 playback isn't always good, whereas there is no pb playing the corresponding wav:

http://forums.pioneerdj.com/entries/20243167-cdj2000-pops-and-crackles-when-playing-mp3-320kbps-files

My guess is that mp3 vs. wav is the way to dig... As Dream Treez says, given the professional quality of the equipment this is quite disturbing.

RIGHT.

This all seems to be getting a little out of hand and extremely crazy.  We all know MT is shot.  However 'drift' in normal mode?  C'mon, so I just carried out an experiment....

::Part 1::

Since anything +/-10% or over has increments of 0.05% (ie. 2.5x more inaccurate than +/-6%), I naturally ignored this pitch range.  Increments of +/-0.05 are too big for 100% accurate mixing.  This was the biggest issue on the CDJ-800s for me and so moving to CDJ-1000s was the welcome answer and has been ever since.  This has been discussed, and is fact.

SO, using the +/-6% pitch range, I selected 2 tracks, one at 120BPM and another at 135BPM.  I had to pitch up +5.80% and pitch down -5.96% respectively.  Playing both tracks from the start, I only considered the possibility of *maybe* having to adjust the platter in the next 15-20 seconds, after 2 minutes had passed.

If we look...

120 + 5.80% = 126.96

135 - 5.96% = 126.954

Mathematically, there is bound to be some kind of drift, but after a huge amount of time.  And technically, whatever algorithms the CDJs are using, there may be consequences due to time stretching/compression and perhaps even the rounding up/down of values and the resulting compounded errors.

In a nutshell, nothing wrong here.

::Part 2::

I took 2 tracks of the same BPM (happened to be 134) and chose a random pitch value (+3.56%), and set them off playing.  After 5 minutes and going through breakdowns at different stages and dropping back in, they were still locked.

::Conclusion::

Case closed.  I hope Pioneer put more time and effort into looking at MT than this non-issue.

Mark, consider myself told off like a schoolboy !!!

I'm just telling how it is for me - I can guarantee that I have to adjust tracks all the time irrespective of being dialled into the correct BPM WITHOUT MT on. 

If it's good for you my congratulations - it ain't for me and never has been

FIZ UM SHOW ontem e naum tive problema algum com MT,  tudo certinho inclusive a versao 4.0.4 ficou bem mais presisa principalmente o MT  meus 2000 ta show de bola rolei WAVE tambem tudo certo. mais concerteza a pioneer vai cada vez mais melhorar o desempenho do cdj 2000 naum tenha duvida disso ,comprei as minhas 2000 no lansamento desde o primeiro FIRMWARE, e de la pra ca foi so melhorias as vezes qualquer passe errado na hora de atualizar o firmware pode causar indesejaveis processamento no desempenho do equipo.

The click/ticks as stated in the other thread are happening in a few of my 320 mp3's, I have just grabbed one of them and converted it to a WAV in iTunes and the clicks/ticks in the track have now gone when played in my cdj2000's, strange. Will have to try to see if converting the tracks into WAV files in iTunes stops the drifting with MT. If it does that means I will have to convert all my mp3's into WAV's in iTunes lol shit, thats long

brothers eu converto todos os meus mp3 320 bem rapido tanto wav para mp3 ou vice versa. so que naum uso itunes. e como falei antes naum tenho problema nen um roda tudo perfeitamente. em relasaum a qualidade de sum tudo depende de qual mixer a mosada usa, porque naum adianta ter uma boa qualidade de audio nas musicas se o mixer naum corresponde a altura e digo mais os melhores mixers saum da pioneer sem sombra de duvidas..

Sorry to say but, converting the tracks from mp3s to wavs is not the solution.

Mark is good to say your opinion and I beleive its a non-issue for you,

but you need to respect ppl here in the forum.

It might work for you and the way you mix,

but for some ppl here (including me) is not working as it used to be.

It is not polite to say that case is closed neither say its an non-issue, because clearly for some ppl here it is.  

opa brother falei na boa quiz dizer que comigo nem um problema aconteceu em ralasaum ao 2000 trabalho com rekordbox e virtual dj rolando video e naum tive problemas ok. sei qoe o que vc esta reclamando e verdade logico ate porque um equipo caro dese se naum esta funcionando como deveria estar, logico vc tem todo direito de reclamar. eu concordo com vc e peso desculpa a vc se eu tiver falado algo que vc naum gostou mais naum quiz ofender e sim dizer que o meu sistema funciona perfeitamente mais naum me direcionei a sua pessoa  na boa ok.

Hi Mario, just a comment -  I'm not sure many ppl on this forum understand portuguese (even less brazilian I guess) ;) Even a rough english translation would be nice, google translate isn't that performant!

@All > The engineers are aware of the complaints, but as Mark and I have both pointed out, the results are inconsistent in testing. Some of the problem is from over-correcting; it may sound like the two are out of sync for one beat, but they're not - the user "corrects" with the jog, sending the mix out of sync.  While there may also be some tracks which are shown as being at the same BPM, it's possible that Rekordbox incorrectly beat-gridded those songs (not for quantization purposes but for the BPM info).  Please look into those two possibilities as we continue to investigate further.

@Marian > The loop issue is separate of this; please don't confuse the two.

@Mario, please stop attaching photos that have nothing to do with your post.