Link rekordbox and ableton live

Man most of the pioneer products cost $2k and more - you know that - that "cdj form factor toraiz" will be no difference I am afraid and obviously one of the reasons why the link integration is being held back :-(

With the link integration, most of the people would be simply using laptops and controllers like a launchpad or apc but by not implementing the standardized midi or link, the users are not given any choice than choosing a product which is part of the walled garden so it sells better and any competition is silenced - thats the reason for calling it "gimmick".

I might be wrong but then the right question is why I am feeling like this and if company's communication with its customer base is correct and why such a small effort is being invested in such a highly demanded feature.

@Marek > It's not a "gimmick" if we have never advertised or promised Ableton Link.

@Pulse and does it even matter if it was promised or not? I thought that thats the point of this forum - to let your customers/users tell you what features they would make use of. More than year ago, lots of people asked the company to introduce a feature which is present in nearly any other software. One year later, when we are getting bit nervous and feel strongly limited seeing link support all around us but not being allowed to join it, we are having a discussion leading to question if there is even a point in requesting any feature which hasn't been announced or promised by the company itself... :-) 

Why even bother let people to raise their requests if even the most valid requests are being devaluated like this? I know that we had similar "feature" conversation in the past but in fact the point is still the same (which is kinda sad) and the idea remains - we just want to use our hw and sw we purchased as much as possible so why the company doesn't understand and help us so we are both happy? 

yes, i don't get why Pioneer won't integrate this........

I've been pointing out this for quite a while now. I also Tweeted about this request a couple of times. I've mentioned a couple of months back that Ableton Link is the only thing missing in Rekordbox, and it is so very hard for Pioneer DJ to implement. I have the feeling they really have something against the idea of using Ableton Link technology to their products despite many users are requesting this feature.

I stopped using Rekordbox and switched back to Traktor using a custom mapping on my DDJ-RB because I always want to integrate finger drumming and live performance on my DJ sets..and I know I'm not the only one who's on this kind of idea.

If Pioneer DJ will officially state that they are never planning to implement it or they are against the idea of Ableton Link into Rekordbox, I will stop and rest my case about this and move on...

I don't make the decisions on what's added to the software and what's not. We just pass the feedback to the engineers, good, bad - it all goes to them to determine:

a) IF it can be included

b) if it SHOULD be included

c) if it is worth the time and development cost to include it

It could be the greatest idea in the world (and for the record, I fully support including Ableton Link), but making statements that we're somehow pedalling "$2500 gimmicks" is about the least productive discussion contribution you can make.

Damn, I wish I bought other controllers instead of the DDJ-RB, if I only knew that Rekordbox won't be having Ableton Link anytime soon :-( Lesson learned for me.

> I don't make the decisions on what's added to the software and what's not.

We all know it and of course no one blames you - I thought that this is clear. Sorry if you got feeling that I blame you in any way.

> but making statements that we're somehow pedalling "$2500 gimmicks" is about the least productive discussion contribution you can make.

That "gimmick" really hit hard you as I can see :-D

Anyway, then the problem must be somewhere in the the way how this all is communicated but sorry - to me it really feels like pio is throttling the link otherwise I don't know how to explain why such a simple, yet effective, demanded & open source technology didn't found its place in any of the updates released over the course of the past year - been there, did that - for any RB coder, this won't take any significant amount of time (and the fact that there are projects integrating link to the pro link proving how easily this can be done only feeds this theory).

I don't need you to agree with me - I am just expressing my thoughts based on the facts I see all around me and the company is not doing much to explain or prove me (or to anyone else) that we are wrong.

@Marek > You should know as well as I do that PDJ doesn't announce anything until they "announce" it. So even if it was coming, and I knew it was going to be included in an update tomorrow, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't even hint at it in the weeks leading up - I would have to repeat the same line of "Thanks for your feedback."

" for any RB coder, this won't take any significant amount of time "

Fortunately for you, you don't have to communicate with the product teams who would tell you that's not the case, because they have a big long list of things that are more important to address. We could both sit here and ponder just how "easy" it would be to add a couple of lines of code, but that's not how the much larger machine works. Sorry!

And yeah, I do have a bit of company pride in the products that PDJ makes, so calling them a "gimmick" is a bit of an insult to me. :p

@Cardinal you need to read between the well known "marketing bulls*it" lines of large companies - they haven't advertised or promised but it fact they never rejected or confirmed it won't be there....

They will never tell anything that could be ever used against him so you can't expect them to confirm it will be there in lets say next update or so....

What really sucks is that status quo which is that "its still being considered" to (most likely) boost other products while not caring much about the part of the customers who are not quite interested in the specific products and don't exactly fit the ideal customer, buying everything they release.

@Pulse
> You should know as well as I do that PDJ doesn't announce anything until they "announce" it. So even if it was coming, and I knew it was going to be included in an update tomorrow, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't even hint at it in the weeks leading up - I would have to repeat the same line of "Thanks for your feedback."

I am well aware about your role here and in the company - trust me that in this way we have more in common than you'd think so I fully understand you...

Its the overall PDJ company policy which is unnecessarily less transparent than it really needs to be, making its customers to feel uncomfortable and sometimes ignored.

Let's put the emotions aside and focus only in facts:

- Ableton link was launched in end of November of 2015

- Today exist around 150 Applications that support Ableton link

https://www.ableton.com/en/link/apps/

For sure Pioneer has an strategy for Rekordbox and this feature is not a priority, there is nothing wrong with that.

The main questions are always the same:

- How much costs to add it to Rekordbox

- How many new users this feature can bring to Rekordbox

- How much this will represent in sales of Licenses and HW

One important point already mentioned is since around 150 Apps are already using it what makes this feature has became a commodity, i mean should be available anyway if Pioneer likes or not the idea.

This is a question of preservation, just look the SW market you will see as soon as a company launch one feature soon or later it is incorpored in others as well.

Today the users are much more demanding, so the companies have no choice.

"a) IF it can be included

b) if it SHOULD be included

c) if it is worth the time and development cost to include it"

Maybe this list should include one more item:

d) If it’s part of Pioneer’s business strategy to include it…

In other words, is it Pioneer’s strategy to encourage lock-in with a closed protocol (Pro DJ Link)? Or will the Pioneer ecosystem support open standards (Ableton Link)? This is a business decision as much as an engineering decision.

While I’m excited for the official unveiling of the DJS-1000, I can understand how it looks like Pioneer’s business model is trending toward lock-in rather than openness. I think that’s what many find frustrating. 

@Pulse

a) IF it can be included : YES IT CAN ! Fork it ! Your software engineers will know – and I guess it's already done by someone somewhere ;-) So please commit, test and release asap !!!

b) if it SHOULD be included : yes it SHALL !!

c) Of course it's worth it ! Yet its cost is marginal regarding to the hudge users benefit, most basic economic rule.

d) Pioneer's strategy must align to it's users' at some point.

Hello, we are the users :-)

So please develop, release, and get to the next round !

@satsun

I agree it's very frustrating. I personally don't give a hoo about the Pro DJ Link feature, but I still welcome it. It was the utter most difficult to set to work properly for the first time. Painful experience...

Aside that I recall having lots of fun using Traktor with Ableton through Link, a few months before switching to Pioneer. So please Pioneer don't turn your back to your customers. (it's a pity having to say that after cashing out a few grands, isn't it ? ;-)

Estoy totalmente de acuerdo, me encantaria comprar la licencia de Rekordbox DJ antes que la de Traktor, ahora mismo estoy en que tengo dos XDJ 700 lo cual tengo todo con Rekordbox basico y tengo Ableton Live suite, queria empezar a hacer directos y pensaba comprar la app rekorbox dj, pero bueno si no hay opcion ni la habra tendre que coger traktor.....

Any updates on the ETA?

(If at all)

Sorry, no information at this time.

Nice

As a new user of rekordbox, coming over from Traktor, I'm amazed at how no progress as been made since the start of this discussion. I want to link my maschine software to rekordbox's midi clock. Cmon Pioneer, step it up!

Before posting, I am gonna say this. There is a lot of hate on this thread. We have to remember that Rekordbox is still pretty damned young compared to the competition. The software has grown at a very rapid pace to include pretty much every feature Serato and Traktor have with the exception of Remix Decks and Link. So kudos to the developers for putting in WORK.

That aside. Ableton Link is a really useful feature for many reasons.
Via Ableton Link, multiple DJ's on controllers and sync their sets together
Artists (such as me) who utilize Maschine (or Ableton for others) can easily sync their live performances with their DJ sets (reason I temporarily switched back to Serato :-( ).

These are just a couple of examples. I'm sur ethe community can come up with way more. 

Yep, lots of requests, and we hope to see it added at some point, hopefully sooner than later!

Link Please...

Ableton Link it’s the only thing keeping me from switching to Rekordbox.

Rekordbox was the only reason I switched to Pioneer.

The lack of Ableton Link is the only thing that will have me switch back to Traktor in a couple of month if it's still missing.

I can live without Rekordbox, but not without being able to sync my gear.

Do we really need to launch a worldwide petition about this?

I am following this post since the begining when I decided to move from Serato to Rekordbox,.A lot of things changed since that time, new controllers were released such as DDJ-R series, new features added in Rekordbox, new products released such as RB-DMX1 that add light control, DJS-1000 and so on.

With this post I am trying just to put my personnal impression that is for me is clear that Pioneer is building a propietary ecosystem.

Based on this perception I can say with almost 100% of certain that Ableton Link is such a feature that won't be released because this is not the direction that Pioneer decided to go as business strategy (I said almost 100% because noone can have 100% of certain of something that we cannot control :))

To do this would be necessary to make Rekordbox an open platform but all actions that is being made is going in a totally oposite direction.

Today I own an DDJ-RZX that is an dedicated controller for Rekordbox and I regret have buying this controller but for the moment I do not have the intention to move from Rekordbox but I will not invest any money with new products from Pioneer ecosystem and I will not count also with the Ableton Link, that would be a very interesting feature to solve some contraints I have today such as integrate my current lightning system to Rekordbox and to add some new possibilities in other areas as well.

I hope be wrong but all facts I have are saying that I am not :)

Sérgio

We're not creating a "Pioneer DJ or nothing" world of products (especially with our foray into production instruments!), and I too hope to see Ableton Link added in a future update.

@sbherculano

I totally agree with you. Pioneer execs dream of becoming an Apple like business of music performance and creation. They believe if they open up their ecosystem, they will loose their precious market shares and/or angry their shareholders. They want to sell us the full enchilada at a premium. 

@Pulse

Let's hope, but not for too long. I have to say your previous statement sounds like pure corporate waffle to me. Pioneer has indeed created a closed system. It's foray into production instruments is only a sign that it aims at gaining traction towards music production. The next logical step should be to create a DAW or buy an existing one. So they have no interest in letting Ableton step into their backyard.

Sorry, I had a laugh at "no interest in letting Ableton step into their backyard."

The production world is Ableton's yard. If anything, we're stepping into it -- and we only stand to benefit from having that functionality.

@Pulse

You're free to laugh at you customers, the whole company already does on that matter.

Now, appart from hearing empty statements, we'd be delighted to see facts in the shape of a software release.

"We only stand to benefit from having that functionality" – so why is it still missing ? It's been open sourced on GitHub for 2 years already...

https://github.com/Ableton/link

Don't tell me Pioneer can't afford to pay for the licence fees like everybody else.

https://www.ableton.com/en/link/products/