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Recordbox bpm and drifting

I have used over 2 years CDJ/DJM setup and never had beatmatch problems. Now im using DDJ RZ and i have to nudge track allmost all the time even when the BPM is same as the playing track. Also Pitch in DDJ RZ feels its not accurate at all compare to rekordbox compatible CDJs. Its not fun really makes hard  doing live mashups with 3-4 deck mode when tracks drifts out of beat.... 

Sami Haapamäki

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All tracks imported and analyzed(beatgrids 100% correct) Normal mode

Sami Haapamäki 0 votes
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MT is on. I have beatmatched allways manually (coming from vinyls/CDJs). With +6 tempo slider it stays better than +10 but i have used +10 allways with CDJ and 0 problems. When track is playing example 132.0 bpm and next track is 128 and you speed up the next track to that 132.0 and look samplers(which is synced) bpm its shows like 132.04 or something like that  so the track bpms lie little bit and that cause the drifting 

Sami Haapamäki 0 votes
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Yeah exactly my decks playing at 132.00(master)  and sampler is synced to master deck and sampler shows the bpm is 132.04

Sami Haapamäki 0 votes
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Having the same issues here,

Its quite annoying that you constantly need to adjust the tracks to keep them beatmatched.

I think you're right, the deck section shows only BPM info with one decimal (for example 128.1) This should be at least 2 decimals, because now tracks are drifting.

Vurrnn 0 votes
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Yeah. When i mix with CDJ2000s from USB stick i never had drifting problems even when using +10 pitch

Sami Haapamäki 0 votes
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@Sami > That tells me nothing about it being 134.00 - it could be 134.01, 134.02, 134.03, 134.04... etc.

As the sampler shows 2 decimal points, I would hazard to say that the actual deck tempo is 134.03, and the sampler has matched it.

Pulse 0 votes
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@pulse

And that's the whole point of it. We can't check on what tempo the deck is playing, because we can only see 1 decimal. 

How can we beatmatch, if we don't know a deck is playing at 134.01 or at 134.09.

The best part, I downloaded a custom DDJ-Sx2 mapping for traktor and used it on my DDJ-RX. Guess what, no problem at all with beatmacthing and no drifting. 

To bad that I bought a pioneer controller, but can't use it live, because the software isn't functioning good enough. 

 

Vurrnn 0 votes
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Thanks Vurrnn for that message. 

 

Weird Thing is that the CDJ2000 dont have those decimal numbers either but they dont drift!!!!

Sami Haapamäki 0 votes
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Gents I have the same problem with my DDJ RZ continually nudging the left wheel to keep the same BPM on the same track! so annoying and completely unacceptable considering the cost of this unit... 

 

Brad 0 votes
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@Pulse

Sorry for my language, but maybe it's time for Pioneer to pull its head out of the sand and admit there is a problem with drifting tracks.

In this thread allready, there are a lot of experienced DJ's, who know how to properly beatgrid and who know how to beatmatch.

Its a weak argument to keep the problem on "you don't have your tracks properly beat-gridded"

If I use my DDJ-RX with traktor, I have no problems what so ever. So it really is a problem with Rekordbox and the DDJ-RX.

Could you tell us what pioneer plans on doing about this?

Like brad says, considering the costs of the controller, this isnt't acceptable.

Vurrnn 0 votes
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@Vurnn > I'm a DJ too. I use the same products and I have no problems with tracks drifting, and I'm not saying this because of my position with Pioneer DJ. I'm curious as to what you guys are doing that this happens. I've NEVER had any issues with drifting or slipping beatmatching and it's not like I wave a magic wand over my tracks or equipment.

Pulse 0 votes
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Hi Pulse,

Sorry for the late reply, but i think i found the problem. As you can see in this screenshot below, I matched 2 tracks to a BPM of 136. The problem is, with the "Horizontal" view you can only see 1 decimal > 136.0. This got us thinking the tracks are matched qua tempo.

If I switch to the "vertical" view, we can cleary see the problem:

The "vertical" view does have 2 decimals, and we see that the left track is 136.01 and the right track is 136.09. Conclusion, tracks drift, because they're in a different tempo.

My problem now is, I do like the horizontal view over the vertical view. Is there a possibility to get the .2 decimal BPM on the Horizontal view aswell?

I hope this clears things up, if not, feel free to ask :)

Vurrnn 0 votes
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That's something we've asked the engineers to consider changing, I'll be sure to pass that along.

Two other options ... hit the sync button or rely on your ears instead of your eyes. ;)

Pulse 0 votes
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**********************

Am having the same problem with my recently purchased DDJ-RZ - not impressed.

Decided to make the jump from Serato (after 10 years) and was super happy with my DDJ-SX2... using the DDJ-RZ is a nightmare with tracks drifting, and even worse when using loops!

All my tracks are beat gridded correctly... will try the vertical solution mentioned above and see if that helps.

Out of the box am not impressed at all with the RBDJ software (hardware is great and library management equally good when using USBs and CDJs).

A real shame given the cost of the unit and the great job Serato and Pioneer did with the DDJ-SX2 etc.

K

Kvaldini 0 votes
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Sorry to say I'm seeing the same thing, coming from Traktor (Vinyl Technics 1200) I need to adjust the tracks al lot more to keep them in sync.

Somehow I got the feeling that the track analyzing, BMP's and Quantize of not that accurate. My biggest problem is the Roll effect it's not quantized or synced but its also drifting. I use this effect Beatmasher 2 in traktor and it's dead on, always.

At the moment I'm in doubt of keeping my DDJ-RX and Rekordbox I think the software is not mature enough yet, Pioneer will solve this our problems eventually but I don't know if I want to wait for it.

So I'm al little disappointed as well. :(

 

Edit, tested the vertical view, the pitch control is really accurate, no problem matching the pitch with 2 decimals Will test in the mix to see if my beat matching is better now.

@Vurrnn  Thankx

Leon 0 votes
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*******************

I have held off for years on switching to RB and thought going for the flagship controller (DDJ RZ) would be the right time... I honestly think it is the RBDJ software that has the issue not the hardware (as the hardware DDJ SX2 etc) work perfectly with Serato DJ software.

Be interested to hear the Pioneer view on this... 

K

Kvaldini 0 votes
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*******************

Tested this to death under all possible situations/combos of tracks (with loops/without loops etc...) and still face the dreaded 'Track Drift' when using my DDJ RZ   >:(

Took the exact same playlist onto a USB and used with CDJ 2000's and had zero track drift, using loops on the fly and running mixes for extended periods (>30secs).

The ONLY thing that made a slight difference was mixing track with the Vertical window open (not horizontal) which allowed me to match the BPMs between two tracks almost exactly... however there was still a drift that would need slight adjustments (but this was manageable).

Is there any reason why we do not have two Decimal Point BPM reading on the Horizontal Deck view (as this seems to be the only way to get the tracks close enough to ride tracks without major drift)?

There seems to be no official response from Pioneer to even acknowledge this issue which is a shame and not something you would expect when dealing with support on the flagship models in their range.

K

 

Kvaldini 0 votes
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Are you using the sync function when mixing? If not, why not? Because apparently you're beatmatching visually by having two decimal places of BPM accuracy, why not hit the button and have it automatically match that value for you?

Pulse 0 votes
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****************

Thanks for getting back Pulse.

In answer.

1. Not using sync as do not use it, given beat matching two tracks should not require this using Pro level gear.

2. Two decimal places is needed to account for difference in tempo between tracks that one decimal place cannot show (and looks to be affecting accuracy of beat matching & looping tracks over longer blends without sync engaged).

Having come from 10 years of Serato, where one decimal place was fine as you had confidence that what you were 'hearing' not 'seeing' was tight enough to run long blends and hit loops on the fly... I simply do not find this when using RBDJ (something shared by a number of people it would seem).

Factor in that I have no issues with RB for sorting tracks/playlists, using a USB (iPad in my case) & CDJs and blending/looping all day... and you must see that there is an issue here and not just hating on the RBDJ Software/Hardware combo?

I do not need two decimal places using CDJs to know that my blends will stay in time and loops will stay locked. Only when using RBDJ + DDJ RZ?

3. Why not hit the button and have it match for you... half the fun of djing is finding the correct pitch yourself surely? Which for some reason even when it sounds like you are spot on in the mix (which after 20 years of DJing I hope I can at least beat match accurately) - if the decimal place value is not exact on both decks (which two decimal places will show) you face issues with 'drifting' and 'looping'.

Hope my taking the time to respond will warrant some open discussion to try and fix the issue, rather than dismissive/non-constructive comments... I want this to work more than anyone having shelled out the cash I can assure you!

Q. Is there any reason why two decimal point cannot be shown in Horizontal view out of interest?

K

 

 

Kvaldini 0 votes
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*******************

Any word back on the above Pulse... had can now state with a fair degree of certainty that:

1. You have to have the BPMs the same (exact to 2 d.p) in order for Loops and Long blends to stay in time when using RBDJ and hardware controllers (DDJ RZ in this case). 'Sounding' in time is not accurate enough (and impossible to tell with only 1d.p. view in horizontal view) and results in drifts, more exaggerated with loops.

2. Running the exact same Loops and Long blends using CDJs does not result in such noticable drifts, mixing by ear is fine and and loops are much tighter/reliable.

K

 

Kvaldini 0 votes
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I've posted about this in another thread, the problem is the pitch fader resolution.

It doesn't matter what view you're in, at 10% setting, the ddjrZ can only make charges in tenths of a bpm, whereas a cdj can do hundredths.

So if your current track is 142.24bpm but your new track is 142.29 bpm, you can only adjust to 142.19 or 142.39, thus they will always drift. As a cdj can go in 0.02s, you could get it to either 142.23 or 142.25.

I've asked for clarification many times but not been given it, are the ddjrz pitch faders high resolution, or just standard midi (127)...

H3X 0 votes
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Do you maybe have your display set to horizontal waveforms? Because I'm using a DDJ-RZ with the vertical waveforms and can adjust to approximately 0.03BPM accuracy. I say "approximately" because the values are finite on the controller resolution and depending on your original BPM, you may not get exactly where you need.

Oh, and the sync works wonders for matching those hard-to-reach numbers.

Pulse 0 votes