DJM S9 with Traktor

I think you are about to experience a rude, ridiculous awakening on how piss poor of a job Pioneer did designing this mixer.  If your not a serato user... Pioneer has basically told you to stick this mixer up your back side and gave you a big fuck FXCK YOU!!!

you cant use it the way your trying to use it.

When you use the DJMS9 on the USB input ... you have to use the internal sound card in the mixer as your audio source.  you cant use USB and route audio into the mixer from an outside source.

Then once USB is selected you need to go into traktor and select an external audio routing and assign decks A & B to the appropriate channels.  This works just fine if your using CDJs in HID mode.  But when you use vinyl or line level timecode... you have to push that time code into the mixer ... and its not a "traktor certified device" (which is complete bullxxit).  So your vinyl time code wont work.

All that "traktor certified device" means is that there is a line of code in the traktor executable file that says that the USB device name for a particular mixer is "ok" to listen to the time code.  What Serato Traktor Rane and Pioneer dont want you to know is that ANY mixer or any sound card for that matter can listen for time code and control traktor...

the "certified" label crap is all just licensing and money between these greedy big audio companies.   You can hack your traktor software to listen to "any" device for time code including the DJM S9 (ive done it).  but then you have to hack every update and figure out a new opening every time the programmers close the loophole.

But that is not half of the issues with this mixer.... you should sit down now....

1.  If you switch the audio input to line in - and allow the audio from your audio6 sound card to enter the mixer... you loose all midi functionality on the mixer controls.  so now you have no cue points, no macro effects, no browsing, no loops... .nothing.  it goes to this absolutely stupid analog effects functionality for the controls.  So the mixer is basically just a $1700 hunk of crap at that point... cause you cant do all the things that make Traktor better than serato and rekordboxDJ... macro-mapping!

2.  ARE YOU READY?  this is quite possibly the dumbest and greediest thing i have ever seen come from a dj hardware manufacturer.... if you do leave it on USB input... use CDJs or some other device to control your decks and use the S9 as your audio source... 

GET THIS... when you map Traktor to use the midi-mappable Serato EFX button bank on the right side... and you map the big trigger (lock or hold) to initiate a midi function....

PIONEER PURPOSELY MADE THE AUDIO CUT OUT WHEN YOU THROW THE SWITCH!.   thats right.  Pioneer purposely added a hardware audio cut out feature to the mixer so that when you try to use it with anything but serato and cuts the audio off on the mixer.   Thats not an accident!!!  that is not a byproduct of the hardware design.   Its greedy corporate management priorities telling programmers and designers to eliminate 66% of the DJ market.   Hey Traktor and RekordboxDJ users... don't buy our mixer cause Serato gave us money and paid DJ Jazzy Jeff to design the mixer so we dont give a fxxk about you guys.  

Long story short... you cant do what you want to do.  

        I can't thank you enough Walt. While he was friendly, this was the answer I couldn't get out of Pioneer Support on the phone today (I don't think he knew). I really appreciate you taking the time to breakdown the specific issues. You saved me tons of time continuing to mess with it. Clearly, you've had your headaches dealing with this crap. Hopefully this post is able to help a lot of others in the same predicament. 

       Oddly, I was trying option 1 from your post and even that wouldn't work. The Line out of the soundcard is 100% working properly, except it enters the S9 and disappears. The S9 is of course set to Line, faders up, etc. I'm now thinking that it's because I have the USB plugged in which turns on the internal soundcard like you mentioned.

       Now, I can switch to Serato or buy a new mixer... Tough decision. I've read that I can import cue points from Traktor to Serato relatively easily so I might try that (not true for Serato -> Traktor). Just sucks I blew $300 on the Traktor Audio 6 (soundcard). Guess I could switch mixers and make some of that money back. I feel a little cheated seeing Q Bert and others using the S9 with Traktor only to find out that it's an unofficial hack that gets patched. I'd also like to point out that not a single person at the store or online mentioned that the S9 basically does not work with Traktor. I had hope because of previous Pioneer/Native Instruments supported mappings related to the DJM series (T1, etc.)

       Rant: Could you imagine if Fender and Gibson started making guitars that only accepted a specialized trademarked cable? Remember MIDI? You know, that code that the original creators intended to be UNIVERSAL? I hate this proprietary crap we have to deal with nowadays. Waste of money and time for everyone involved. 

Thanks again

@Walt > Newsflash: The DJM-S9 is a SERATO-COMPATIBLE MIXER. Nowhere is it advertised or marketed as a Traktor-compatible mixer. It's not "crap," it's about licensing and ensuring that products work properly with that certified hardware/software combination. If it were both Traktor AND Serato compatible, it would be more expensive as the mixer would come with both software titles, meaning Pioneer has to pay both companies for a license every time a mixer is sold. It's less complicated to partner with one company.

@Jesse > You ARE able to use your DJM-S9 with the Audio6 interface, I've seen it done. If you need help setting that up, please let us know and we'll be happy to assist, but @Walt is going to have to take a back seat.

Hey Pulse, thanks for the reply! I got it working tonight, it's embarrassing, but the Trim was turned down. A lot of stuff to love about the mixer (crossfader especially). Next step is trying to map some of what I miss from my controller like hot cues and a knob to beat jump. Or I could switch to serato, I'm still deciding but that extra compatability is pretty tempting...

@Pulse ---- "@Jesse > You ARE able to use your DJM-S9 with the Audio6 interface, I've seen it done."   ????

i said you can use the audio6 with the S9 if you want to use it as a "basic mixer."  

if you read my post.... i said you cant "use the Audio6 while also using the midi functionality."  the only way you can use the pads, knobs and buttons to send midi commands to Traktor or RekordboxDJ  is by using the input selector on USB A or USB B.  

Soon as you switch it to a line input to accept the analog audio signal from the Audio6 it shuts down the midi communication.   So @Pulse you are wrong... you can not use it with the audio6 with 100% S9 functionality.  Ive already been on the phone with the pioneer support team... they told me Midi communication can not be done when the mixer is using an analog input source.

@Pulse... "ensuring that products work properly with that certified hardware/software combination."...

There is no manufacturing expense to make Traktor work with the S9.  Its all smoke and mirrors.  The S9 operates perfectly fine with Traktor Timecode as soon as you take out the programming code that checks the USB device name in the Traktor Executable file.  i can send you a youtube link so you can see it if you want.

The DJM900NXS is a Traktor certified device.... yet somehow, magically... the Serato software works perfectly fine with it when you install the club pack.  All the club pack does is add the DJM900NXS to the USB device list of allowed devices in the Serato Executable file.  

Its not a manufacturing expense to make these "certified" mixers work with time code.  They will all work.  ANY sound card will work.  The input audio jack on my laptop will listen to time code and control Traktor, Serato and RekordboxDJ if it wasnt for programming code in the software blocking the USB device names.   The consumer pays for the cost of having the design teams block all the other mixers they don't want to work.  Not the other way around.

Pioneer purposely went in and put an audio cut off switch on the effect lever when one of the Serato EFX buttons are engaged.   They added code to the S9 firmware to purposely block Traktor and RekordboxDJ software from functioning on the mixer when those buttons are engaged.  Thats not an accident and its not a by-product of the hardware design.  

Walt is absolutly right, the "certified" stuff is complete "bull...". And it's always the same story, not just for Pioneer.

I needed a new mixer for quiet some time now, nothing on the market really attracted me, and I wanted to stay away from that "digital" stuff for certain reasons. I went for the S9 because it's kind of a hybrid.

The thing with all the digital hardware is ... there are always loads of fancy marketing videos with bling bling. And if you watch them you are thinking, yeah I can do this and that with it. But once you get the stuff nothing is really working as you wanted to. I own NI Maschine, and I wanted to controll the NI Komplete software, but nooooo. that's not allowed, you need to buy one of those keyboards to controll it. It's more or less the same hardware, it's just some softwarecode that prevents me from using the Maschine.

Ya Ya it's NI a different company and a different product, but it's the same s... with most companies. The hardware is really nice (see the S9, it is a really good mixer) but either the drivers, the software or a certain code sucks.

Back to the S9 and some crappy software/drivers. I can't use it on Windows with Steinberg 64bit programms. I mean come on it's 2016, 64bit is mandatory most music "pro" applications (ähm don't talk bout Serato here) and a ASIO-driver not working with Steinberg products ... COME ON are you f.. kidding me? Is it know by the developers that 64bit is not working? Does anybody except me cares?

Also it's probably just a matter of time till we'll see a DJMR9 an S9 version that works with Rekordbox instead of serato, all S9 user will be stuck with serato since it's CERTIFIED.

Enough of rage ...

Sincerly

Flowshi

PS. English is not my native togue, so excuse for bad grammar, spelling and all that jazz.

@Walt > So if you want the MIDI functionality, pop into the settings and assign the DJM-S9 as the audio interface, and presto -- MIDI. Sure you lose the ability to use timecode, but CDJs work just fine.

Did I mention this is a SERATO mixer?

This entire thread was about Jesse Swanton trying to get the mixer to have midi functionality while also using an external audio source (Audio6) so he can incorporate his PLX turntables with the S9.  

Obviously I know that you can pick the S9 as the audio source inside Traktor.   In my first reply,  I was very clear that using the S9 as your audio source with the input selectors on USB A or B was an option..  Why would you even give that response as a mediator?  it offers no solution to the core problem addressed with this thread.

@Pluse - "Did I mention this is a SERATO mixer?" 

Making a mixer for SERATO is one thing.... purposely engineering an audio signal cut off  function on the effect lever of the mixer when one of the EFX buttons on the right button bank is engaged ..... specifically to "block" all other midi mappable software from using the mixer is just dirty business.    Pioneer Hardware is typically pretty impressive.  But their business practices have major room for improvement.  

That was a done on purpose to block Rekordbox, Traktor, Ableton and any other midi-mappable software from using the EFX Button Bank with the Effect Lever.  It was not an accident or a by-product of the design process.  

@Walt > Apparently you know more about DJ gear than you do about business.

Well, the cutoff is probably due to the way they implemented the Serato FX.

We had a discussion over at Serato forums, where some member complained bout lag-issues with the Serato FXs.

Afaik the FXs work as send return loop. I had a similar setup when using Traktor. Routing send return from the mixer into a secondary in- and output of my NI soundcard. Thing is once you pull the lever the mixer awaits the return signal from Serato leading to a cutoff when no signal is coming (meaning when Serato is not active).

Probably the only way to implement FX accordingly without causing lags to other stuff, You could mix within the software, which would lead to lag when scratching/using faders or CF.

@Pulse: Business on the one side, satisfying customers on the other!

Let's be serious. Thing is, there is rolling money from one company to another. And because of this certain functions are cut off, pissing off the endconsumer.
And that's why we complain. And I don't know who to blame: is it Pioneer paying a fee to serato so they can put a sticker on their mixers, or is it Serato paying Pioneer (well known for their mixers) for making their stuff only workable with Serato.

Famous DJ QBert was scratiching in a video with the S9, and at some point it's clearly visible that he uses the mixer with Traktor. He said a friend hacked the thing (or software).
Why do we need to hack it to get all the function?

In the end it is just bad marketing, bad for the endconsumer, and problably bad for business in a longer term.


Sorry if we put you in a tough spot here, justifing bad marketing of your company.
I apreachate your work and that you show up here, on other forums mods won't even show up.

Could you please tell the bosses, that we don't like the "CERTIFIED" stuff (just bad). And that we need 64bit drivers as soon as possible.

I guess you guys have never heard of exclusivity partnerships before?

why would the most popular and highest quality DJ gear manufacturer in the world create the best battle mixer in history and put themselves in a position where they eliminate 66% of the buyer market ... Including their own software package?  Serato traktor and rekorboxDJ users would buy this mixer if it worked for everyone.  your telling me Pioneer needs serato's money for marketing?  or to pay for the manufacturing logistics? or to pay Jazzy Jeff to design the thing?  The money pioneer gets from the serato exclusivity partnership is more than they would make selling the product to the other 66% of the DJs in the industry that wants this mixer?  Come On!   you think they would learn their lesson from the SRT.  Make a good mixer for everyone and everyone will buy it.  including the clubs and backline companies that need one mixer to work with all the artists on all platforms.    Hopefully Pioneer doesnt screw up the new TOUR line of equipment and make that only work with 33% of the performance platforms as well.

Again, @Walt, clearly you have missed the point of the product and the business reasoning behind it.