[SOLVED] how it should have been done.

I agree the cdj-850's do not support quantized loops, and as you say that would be a new feature.

But thats not the problem, its the fact the auto loops aren't good enough, I.E. if the tempo says 126bpm, and I press an 8 beat auto loop, the length of the loop should be exactly the time of 8 beats @ 126bpm, but its not, you can hear the end of the loop isn't seamless or the timings slightly off, one or the other, and therefore it drifts. Obviously its up to the user to press it at the right time, on beat, as there's no quantize.

And I'm not trying to be patronizing or anything, i know you know how a loops works, I'm just trying to explain the problem as clear as possible.

Still, I love my cdj-850's though! I'm not a hater I'd just like to see this fixed =]

is that i want to say. When i spent 900 euros for CDJ 850  with auto beatloop i can hope a PERFECT loop as a poor and  sheap 200 euros CDJ value.

But no, i'll do buy 900 or 2000 to obtain same value as cheap CDJ player. Incredible !!!!

First and last Pioneer bought !! 

Brett - I thought the auto loop didnt matter when you hit it? I'm pretty sure if I hit it off beat it will still loop on (for instance) 8 beats until i hit exit and it will pretty much be ok (apart from the auto being quite a way out). Might be wrong ??

I understood the quantize feature to basically use a more complicated algorithm and software to predict the loop more precisely?

What worries me is firstly these were sold with the first effort of auto looping (which should never have been sanctioned by management), then they 'improved' the auto loop in the next firmware upgrade. Which makes me think they have improved it as much as it possibly can be.

If this is the case then they shouldnt be sold with this feature because it doesnt work. Similarly with the other features that dont work. Either that or the price should reflect a player without those features.

Yeah thats right, I was just trying to separate the problem from the quantize feature, but yes the loop should still work fine, I just think its better to get a whole beat in, rather than starting on the second half of a beat and at the end of the loop the first half of a beat is caught and it seamlessly makes a beat as it loops, and you can't tell in most cases... in theory

The quantize would start the loop on the grid, which you would have adjusted exactly to the beginning of the beat in RB (I believe)

And yeah, surely it reads the current bpm and which auto loop length you've pressed, then the loop should be a certain time down to the millisecond?

e.g. 128bpm for 4 beats, 128 divided by 60 = 2.133 then times by 4 = 8.533 and thats how many seconds the loop would be

I've only gone to 3 decimal places, but you get what I mean, maybe it's more difficult than that...? I'm not a software enginner haha

sorry I f*cked that maths right up haha

60 divided by 128 = 0.46875 then times by 4 = 1.875 seconds

Is this right? I've confused myself haha. Fail :P

Well the cdj 850 was never ment to have quantize like was said above and they can't fix the auto loop because the player cant get anymore exact then it is already with the loop. So its an un-solvable problem. The title of this thread is also "how it should have been done" so My question is why even have an autoloop function if it doesn't work? I would prefer 3 cue points like the mk3 instead. or even get rid of the auto loop and release it for a cheaper price. 

the question is what is the interest to release a CDJ with an autobeat loop  that is not accurate? What might it serve?

I would also have preferred a three hotcues instead of this function ultimately USELESS.

I agree with Nick and Davmix. Just wondering if anyone from Pioneer could confirm if Nick's right that the player can't get the loop anymore accurate, and therefore the problem is 'unsolvable'? Or maybe it's being addressed...

Brett - not sure of the calculations, but I agree you may have failed in your attempt haha

I think the autoloop is more desireable than hot cues, it was this feature that really enticed me (Had my first go on a 2000 & 900 at the weekend and I think I actually prefer the 900 just for the autoloop!), but like we've all said if it is only as good now as it will ever be then it shouldn't have even been put into it!

An answer from Pioneer would be nice - however as I suspect it will be a negative answer and a negative answer will be admitting they were wrong!

I'm having a hard time understanding what the difference between an accurate auto-loop that works like how Brett explained, and Quantized looping. 

From my understanding over the years was that Quantize allows you to jump between beats or jump between cue points, and ALWAYS stay on time. Again, provided that your gridding is fine. This means you can pretty much remix tracks on the go, live- dissecting the parts of the tracks and jumping around between them and knowing you will never fuck up the timing of the tracks

Whereas snapping allows for perfect loops that snap or attach to pre determined beatmarkers based on BPM.

Having said that I really don't know how it could be that difficult to implement snap looping that is based off of the rekorbox beatgrids and BPM?  The player can obviously read that info already, how can it be that difficult to have the player reference?

I know haha but in my defense I only got the bpm and the time the wrong way round, spotted and corrected it straight away :P i think lol

I agree, it's such a handy feature! And I'm fine with using the normal cue points you can use, and just using the arrows to select which one I want

Yeah, lets wait and see

I expected the minimum buying two CDJ for 1900 euros is to beatmatch two tracks perfectly with loop without pich bend every 2 seconds! Even CDJ KoolSound at 200 euros doing better. 

I do not understand why the owners of this CDJ are not angrier. 

its not the problem for me, i mix since 1988 and ive never used CDJ autoloop in my set but when Pioneer advertising on its basis autobeatloop a perfect mix I'm sorry this is false advertising ! 

Lets not reference each other's mixing. This is about the product. It is a support forum for the product. The point here is simple. The autobeat loop, which is a performance and physical feature, is utterly pointless. You are better off looping with a lower-end model and/or even an older model (how does that happen? nothing technological about that). The computer of the CDJ-850 more often than not also malfuctions and displays incorrect waveforms (a key difference between the CDJ-850 and CDJ-350).

Take those things into consideration and the standout features that seperate the CDJ-850 from the CDJ-350 are absent. The price here does not accurately reflect the features (or absence of), the product, and hopelessly, the support offered. 

Hear Hear.  Well said quistuhpha.

By the way, I would like to bump my question I am waiting for @Gavin to answer and for other CDJ-850 owners to think about.@Gavin implied that the engineering team for the CDJ-850 isn't the same engineering team to work on new products such as the XDJ-Aero, etc. 

The question is: THEN What are those CDJ-850 engineers doing nowadays? Apparently releasing new color finishes and NOT support updates?

It is impressive how Pioneer turned a deaf ear to these problems.

No deaf ear has been turned. We continue to listen to all your feedback and provide updates to the engineers (who directly view these threads themselves).

Ok Gavin, can you just tell us if future update is in progress for CDJ 850 ?

Thanks.

It is always a priority to work on making the units the best they can be.

Can we get a _somewhat _clear and definitive answer? Hmm seems like you just avoided something. And I have a hard time believing what you're saying. Scroll back and you'll see me and another user made threads specifically regarding incorrect waveforms displaying almost a year ago.

If you've a hard time believing what I'm saying then that doesn't really leave me with a whole lot of options to explain otherwise. I can only pass along the information that I am being told and, interpreting that information leads me to say that Pioneer will continue to tweak their products as much as possible.

So I am booked to play at a club that still has CDJ-850's. Has this above issue been sorted out in the meanwhile?
I know this thread is 3 years old but not all clubs have Nexus setup's around here.
Regards

Wow thanks for your advice kiki, I have never even thought about that....

No but on a serious note I can manually loop, no problems. Just wanted to hear if I can now use the auto loop on them or if I must still manually loop every time. Seems the latter it is then.

Hi Kiki, Okay cool I have not played on the CDJ850's yet but this seems to be chilled. I was expecting it to be way out. Thanks for the reply