DJM-900 nexus ASIO MIDI bug with Ableton Live

There is a pro-audio shop in the neighborhood willing to let me test with one of their DJM-900's on Monday so if it's not fixed by then I'll go see if I can duplicate the fault on the hardware end.

There is also a duplicate of this ticket on Ableton's support service containing status reports and crash reports generated during the fault, but I have a feeling I will be able to after reading this. 

Oh and here is a video of it happening: https://goo.gl/photos/YzVKdZSRCdTnNVY68

Update: I determined that the DJM-900 nexus ASIO driver works fine in 32bit Ableton Live. The question is why is that a fix? I am running 1.601 drivers on Win7 Ultimate. I have also tested 64 bit Ableton thoroughly with 1.710 - even though it says it is not for Win7. Neither driver works in 64 bit Ableton Live when it comes to Live MIDI output.

:(.....

Hi, i have the same problem with djm750. Any solutions to fix it?

Same problem with DJM-T1,we need a fix !!

I was never able to find a fix for this. Ended up buying a Native Insturments Komplete Audio 6 which works but has it's own problems.

Expecting Pioneer let us know something about that bug..at the price of the product i think it would be the right thing to do from them... btw.. just another one dissapointed pioneer djm900nxs2 user... wondering whats the storry with aplle comps....

Hi All, I have the same problem with DJM850k , Ableton and Novation Remote SL

see what happen when I play with asio4all or with pioneer djm-850 asio at the video at the following link:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NBrSuoPQCk1vXZEXkBXBPy1mKLFECeJZ/view?usp=sharing

hej there,

i have exactly the same issue:

+ ableton live 10, any kind of midi input (have a keyboard and a push2)

+ if i use native pioneer ASIO driver after the first midi note - midi input freezes

+ if i switch back to dx/wave driver everything works fine, but as i expect low latency operation with ASIO from a +2K sound device this should be fixed by you pioneer guys!

greetz from vienna

gerold

forgot to mention i have a djm900nx2 with the new beta drivers posted in some other thread

In my opinion, Pioneer did not even try to simulate and solve this problem. Instead of looking for the cause they prefer to find the guilty midi devices

Have any of you tried disabling the MIDI input from the DJM when this occurs?

not yet - but will do this evening .... how do i disable the the midi input on DJM side ? 

greetz from vienna

Hello,

I'm having this same issue with my DJM 750 mk1, Akai MPK, and 64-bit Ableton 10 on a Windows 8 OS.

I've disabled all MIDI input from the DJM and tried using different USB inputs and different MIDI channels from the MPK.  I'm still able to map all the controls on the MPK while running the DJM's soundcard, but I have no instrument control except momentarily whenever I first hit a key before it completely stops.  The other thing I've tried is to remove MIDI control from the MPK and run the DJM's MIDI and I found that even then the DJM's MIDI is read through the assigned channel only momentarily before dropping completely.  The signal is still detected according to the MIDI input detection in Ableton, but nothing is coming through the individual channels.

I hope this issue gets worked out soon!

Thanks

Hey guys, Same problem here with a DJM 900 nexus

Running ableton live, ASIO audio. same problem as above. midi controller works for the 1 second when first connected before jamming up. ableton is still picking up midi signal, but i have no instrument control.

tried all the usual culprits (cables, midi routing, disabling the mixer midi, changing audio drivers) 

would love a fix for this because like people have already said,  for the price of these mixers, they just NEED to work. 

Please can we have an update on this Pulse

Hi im having exact same problems with my friends DJM850s, hook up to Ableton live 9.7 and it exhibits this behaviour.
All sound works if you use step sequencer to Input midi on Push 1.
Try and trigger the drum pads though and it triggers for a split second then nothing.
This is a Pioneer problem for sure as it does not happen with Denon X1700, Native instruments Audio 4, Numark DJ IO Asio soundcard I have tested, or with the windows native drivers.
Cannot believe this is not being addressed.

same here still with Ableton live 10 on Windows 10 64bit and a djm 900nxs2...I really cannot believe that I have bought a 2K high-end mixer and the company building it just totally ignoring its customers

PIONEER - CAN YOU AT LEAST AKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE IS AN ISSUE ?????

when someone asks me about buying a good mixer I am already starting to tell them that they should avoid pioneer ....

a very frustrated customer.

Hi there,

I just spent nearly a whole day trying to resolve this issue using my DJM-900NXS2, I initially thought it was an Ableton or Push MIDI issue so spent a long time looking into that..

Then by trial and error, I switched the audio device in Ableton from Pioneer ASIO to dx/wave (using either Pioneer DJM or Windows built-in audio), and the issue was gone!

Then from a Google search I found this thread, and realised it's actually a Pioneer driver issue.

Extremely frustrating! The DJM-900NXS2 is a flagship device, we should be able to use it as an ASIO low-latency device with popular software like Ableton 10. Please can this issue be fixed in the 64-bit ASIO driver?

Thanks (from a frustrated customer!)

I'm in dialogue with Pioneer support about this issue with the DJM 850s, Win 10 64 bit and either Push 1 or 2.
Their tech support are saying it's nothing to do with their drivers. It is apparently the fault of Ableton and the way it interprets the Midi sent from the DJM mixers.
Take from that what you will.
I'm now contacting Ableton support and will see what they say, and would encourage anyone who has this problem to get on to both companies support because someone is telling fibs.

@Alex Mci: "It is apparently the fault of Ableton and the way it interprets the Midi sent from the DJM mixers."

My understanding of this issue so far based on my observations (see above comment), is that it's an ASIO driver issue (i.e. an audio issue), rather than a MIDI issue?

I understand that the DJM mixers with MIDI output can send MIDI to Ableton (in addition to sending ASIO audio), but I've deliberately disabled MIDI from the DJM in Ableton to narrow down the issue..

Thanks!

p.s. As an aside, confusingly there is a different issue that IS a MIDI issue, which I'm currently talking to Pioneer support about: https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360040491171-DJM-900-NXS2-and-Ableton-Midi-Sync

@Alza, that is my opinion also, I have tried it with numerous audio interface, Asio driver and windows native.
I have tested on desktop pc and laptop and even had a go with an old 32bit set up. Which works perfectly by the way.
It always comes down to the Pioneer drivers use that kills everything I try on push, switch audio interface and your good to go.
It's just so wrong.

Hi folks,

Just checking in again, does anyone have any developments on this issue from Pioneer? I opened a request with Pioneer support, but I've not had any response yet :(

I've also found three other forum posts from different users reporting what is effectively the same issue, from a year ago or even longer:

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360012401883-DJM-900-nexus-and-Ableton-Live-10-Bugs

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360001314123-Ableton-Live-9-with-DJM-900nxs-sound-output-kills-MIDI-keyboard-inputs

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115019177743-DJM-750K-Posible-error-driver-ASIO

There is still no official acknowledgement from Pioneer to confirm or deny the issue (i.e. by attempting to reproduce it), which would be the first step before even providing a fix.

What's the point in offering ASIO and/or MIDI support in these products, if you're not going to prioritise compatibility issues with other companies products (whether they are regarded as "competitors" or not), when the whole point of ASIO and MIDI are all about making hardware and software work together?

So frustrating.. a $2000+ mixer can't be used with ASIO and Ableton MIDI devices (a popular use case considering the number of users reporting the issue), all because of driver issues :(

***PIONEER, PLEASE CAN YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THIS ISSUE***

Or, please respond to my opened support case :)

Thanks :)

Pioneer support denied this is an issue for them to me, they tried to blame Ableton.
When I pointed out that it works fine on 32bit and I was pretty sure it's a pioneer driver problem because after trying all sorts of other audio interfaces without problem everything points to the 64bit asio.driver for Windows being the culprit.
The broke off communication and basically ignored me. Their support is a joke and is the main reason I'm now using Denon gear without any problems. Absolutely disgusting that Pioneer treat their customers like this.
I have now taken to trolling their Facebook posts warning any one else stupid enough to shell out thousands on their gear.

They can't acknowledge that it's an issue with their product (hardware or software) if they're unable to determine the cause of it.

Our teams have been working on this for quite some time, but as you can tell from the lack of updates, it's a difficult nut to crack.

I have asked them to continue investigating based on the information provided in this, and other, threads.

As a follow-up, I've tried to replicate this myself and was unable to get any kind of freeze or error using any kind of MIDI controller I had available (mostly PDJ gear of some variety, also tried an NI Kontrol F1). I'm running Ableton Live 9 Standard on Windows 10 build 1803 within Bootcamp on a MacBook Pro (11,4) using a DJM-900NXS2 with the latest firmware and drivers installed.

I'm wondering if perhaps there is some other commonality between computers ... can you guys maybe post your computer make / model / motherboard (if applicable) / USB chipset driver?

Ok I will chime in again.
As far as computers go I have tried using a Dell Optiplex 7010 SFF as my main desktop PC. It has an core i7 3370 processor, 16gb Samsung DDR3 10600 RAM, a Samsung Evo 760 SSD 500gb. And an Asus GT710 graphics card. And runs Windows 10 pro 64bit totally updated.

My back up Desktop is also a Dell Optiplex 780 SFF. It has a Xeon 3360 quad core processor, 16 gb Kingston 10600 RAM, a 240gb Samsung Evo 750 SSD which also runs fully updated Windows 10 pro 64bit. This also dual boots a SanDisk 250 gb SSD which runs a 32bit Version of Windows 10 pro

My Laptop is a Sony Vaio F series model no VPC-F13 M0E. It has a core i7 740 QM,
16gb of Samsung Ram, and a 500gb Samsung SSD, this also runs 64bit Windows 10 pro

Also for testing purposes I used a friend's Lenovo Ideapadb110 AMD A8-7410 quad core, 8gb RAM, AMD Radeon R5 M30 2gb graphics also running 64 bit windows 10 pro also.

For Midi controller I have Ableton Push 2 and my friends Push 1.

For audio interface I have Pioneer DJM850s, a friend's Pionerr DJM 900, i also have a Denon X1700 digital mixer and a Numark Usb DJ up interface.

So I connect the DJM 850s to any of these computers using USB 2 ports straight into computer with no hubs, I use either Belkin Signature usb2 cables or HP monster usb 2 cables.

Start Ableton 9.7 standard 64bit, Push or Push 2 is automatically assigned as a control surface ensure all other boxes are unchecked for Midi track, remote and sync.

Select DJM 850s as audio interface and select channels for master cue.

Go to Push 2, browse and load a drum rack in a midi channel. The 16 drum pads are highlighted and the slots are populated.
Now the second you touch a drum pad it triggers for a split second, you hear the kick or hat sound for a split second then nothing when you repeatedly try to trigger a pad or input into the sequencer or play a scale.
If you load an audio file in an audio channel and trigger it with the mouse audio plays and sounds fine.

Now plug in a Denon X1700 mixer without restarting live, go to lives preferences and select X1700 asio as audio interface instead of the DJM 850s and repeat the drum pad and everything is perfect Push 1 or 2 behave as they are supposed to.

So I have been trying all sorts of different combinations of computer and hardware and keep getting the same results using Pioneer asio as audio interface, the minute any other audio interface is selected it just works.

Funny enough if i load Ableton on my dual boot Optiplex 780 as 32bit the Pioneer DJM mixers work as expected. So the only common denominator that i keep coming back to is Pioneers x64 asio drivers for Windows 10.

I have also had Pioneer support reply to me again and I will try and go into as much detail with them when I get time and try and get a fix for this, but I thank you just for the fact you have even responded and it gives me hope we can get a fix.

But just out of curiosity, is anyone using Windows 10 x64 successfully with Ableton push?

Hi Pulse,

Firstly, thanks for confirming that Pioneer are working on this! Presumably to try and reproduce the issue.

Secondly, regarding your attempt to reproduce - can I ask if the Ableton 9 you used was the 32-bit version, or 64-bit? My understanding is that this issue pertains to Ableton 10, since this is only available in a 64-bit version, and it's the 64-bit side of things which is causing the issues (as in, I've heard users report that 32-bit Ableton is unaffected, but that's only available up to version 9).

If you could repeat with Ableton 10 (64-bit only), that would be useful :)

Thanks!

64bit on my end, only ever 64bit! ;)

I know the Push isn't the only commonality in the issues above, there was one user saying he had an AKAI MPC cause the same problems, so I'm trying to find the common thread.

Thanks for the info guys.

@Alex > How do you have your audio channels configured? Are you sending everything to master within Ableton and then the master channel out to the mixer? Can you get more detail on that?

Hi Pulse, yes using channels on the DJM set to USB1/2 as master 3/4 as Cue in Ableton preferences and just have Ableton route everything. Also as mentioned in the opening post 48000 is the only sampling rate it lets you select it won't change to 44100 or 96000.
Also as I have said, it happens with both Push 1 and 2 controllers.
And as I have not upgraded to Ableton 10 all my problems are happening with the latest version of Ableton 9.