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drift with CDJ 2000 Nexus

Hi,

I recently purchased these decks. I instantly upgraded to the latest firmware so I was sure most bugs were removed however I have the following issue.

When I beat match 2 tracks at different bpms I start to see a drift within the first 8 bars, for example.

Track 1 - 128 bpm (playing)
Track 2 - 130 bpm (cued)

I bump up track1 slowly to 130bpm throughout the track, great.

Now when I have them both at 130 bpm and beat match them I start to get the drift, though minor its enough that I have to jog the wheel to keep it in sync. Ive even tried at temp 6 so I have more control but no matter what I set it either drifts forwards or backwards.

I appreciate there will be drift at some point but I would of thought it would be further down the line.

Am I doing something wrong here?

BTW I'm using rekordbox 3.3.

thanks

Ian

Ian Tobin

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If your tracks are analyzed properly in Rekordbox the BPM-counter is very accurate but even with one decimal resolution you will experience some drift over time.

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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ive added them all into rekordbox and seem to be analyzed correctly. Im sure its not correct though as im sure all the pro DJs dont have to jog the wheel like that i do, its a pain as i can't mix using the eq as im constantly trying to correct the drift.

Is there a proceedure for correctly doing it in rekordbox?

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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If you're spinning music with stable BPM's (house, techno etc.) make sure that analysis is in normal mode. Then check the beat grid and, if necessary, adjust it so that the beat markers are lined up correctly.

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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ok, not done anything with the beat grid, ill give that a shot, fingers crossed.

and thanks!

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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Hi,

well i checked beat grids and markers looked fine.

Its really weird, i can mix 2 records @ 128 bpm and they dont drift but as soon as one is faster and i speed the other up i then get the drift.

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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hi ian, it sounds like your tracks aren't properly beat matched in the first place.

are you experienced at beat matching by ear or are you relying on the BPM counters?

you shouldn't have any drift after 8 bars, i can get most tracks to play together for 2-3 minutes without touching the platter once i've got them beat matched...

Phil 0 voti
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Hi Phil,

I am experienced by ear, ive come from a technics 1210s background so have done it for years. The problem comes when I mix 2 tunes with different bpms, with the same it is fine and stays together.

I wonder if someone could test it?

get 2 tunes, 1 at 128bpm and one at 130 bpm. Move the temp up to 130bpm for both tracks then hit start and match them together, see how long they stay in sync for?

thanks

Ian

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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Jumping in here... 130BPM... and how many decimals? There's a difference in rounding between 129.6 and 130.4, both of which could be rounded to 130.

Pulse 0 voti
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hi ian

i'm trying to understand your problem, are you specifically talking about matching the bpms by just matching the numbers on the bpm counters? if so then they will not be 100% beat matched as the bpm only shows .1 decimal

if the bpms are properly matched using your ears then they will not drift for several minutes if you've done it right. these decks are used every night, all around the world so if there was a problem with them not being able to hold a mix together of 2 tracks +/- 2 bpm then no-one would be using them.

Phil 0 voti
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Hi Pulse/Phil

ok yes I'm doing this by numbers so 130.0. I'm a little confused what you mean could be rounded?

are you saying that the bpm counters on the decks aren't that good?

The thing ive tried tonight, set both tracks to 130.0 and tempo to +6 which ever way I set one of the tempos its either gets slightly faster or slightly slower but doesn't stay spot on in sync.

Ill try another test by doing it purely by ear and see what happens.

thanks

Ian

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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hi ian, good, i understand your problem now.

are you using music files that have been analysed by rekordbox & exported to usb stick/sd card? if so, then the bpm counters are totally accurate.

what pulse is saying about the bp being rounded is correct. the bpm only shows to one decimal place, therefore it is rounded up or down. if it showed to two decimal places you might see that your 2 tracks bpm readings are actually 130.00 bpm and 130.09 bpm.
now you can see why there is a drift - because they are not in perfect time, there is a 0.9bpm difference.

Phil 0 voti
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Hi Phil,

I understand what your saying now.

They have been analysed in rekordbox and I have tried exporting to usb and also using the direct Ethernet link via the djm nexus.

I have also tried using the sync button, this works fine and stay in sync.

Is there a way to put to the bpm to 2 decimal places? or what is the best way to make sure they don't drift?

thanks for your time so far.

Ian

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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you could beat match the traditional way by ear or just use sync if you prefer but there are 2 other ways.

you can also press the sync button twice (once to activate and once to turn it off) - this will effectively just set the bpm to the speed of the other track playing (the master). when you hit play the bpm will be correct but you'll need to manually nudge it into perfect time as it isn't synced.

you can also use the bpm counter if you use this little trick.
on deck one (use +/- 6% setting on both decks) set your 130 bpm track by setting the bpm at the very point 129.9 turns to 130.0 - now do exactly the same on deck 2.

you should now find that using this method, your tracks will now be almost in perfect time and shouldn't drift like before. i think this is the solution you are looking for.

Phil 0 voti
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Actually you can. But last time I revealed this technique in the forum I got pretty bashed, a lot of people just didn't like that I discovered how to pitch with two decimal points. It actually works on any CDJ from 900 and up, been using it since five years or so.

Please see this technique as an asset, use it if you like but don't blame me because it exists.

All tracks have to be properly analyzed in Rekordbox

1) Make sure you use +-6% pitch
2) Pitch one track so it JUST switches to a BPM, in your case 130.0 (sometimes it's a bit tricky to hone in the accurate 0.2% )
3) Set the other track so it also JUST switches to the same BPM

Both tracks are now pitched with 0.05 accuracy. They will still need to be lined up properly and some nudging over time but if you get your play button timing right you won't have to check the pitch before you start mixing in the next track.

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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no worries mate, your explanation was better than mine anyway.

Phil 0 voti
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The sync button technique is also really sweet, but the neat thing about using the pitch is that it's backwards compatible to CDJ900.

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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Hi guys,

thanks for the info. I'm going on the decks tonight so will try the pitch test and let you know.

thanks

Ian

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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Hi guys,

well the tests are in, heres what I did.

Deck 1 (playing) 130 bpm tune

Deck 2 (cueing) 140 bpm tune

So I sped up deck 1 to 140 bpm and just over was 1.42%

Deck 2 was already at 140bpm @ 0.00%

When I beat matched them it held for around a minute maybe less then started to drift (deck 1 too slow) so I tried again and increased the pitch to 140 bpm @ 1.44% which then held for roughly the same time but then was too fast so it seems it needs to be 1.43% to actually stay locked but that isn't an option, it only goes up in 2s.

Is this normal?

thanks

Ian

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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sorry I should say deck 1 was at 138 bpm not 130 :)

thanks

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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To achieve what you want you will have to use sync. There's no way you will keep two tracks manually matched without any interaction for several minutes.

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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Using my ears is fine and i acheived the same result, it just makes me wonder as you see all the pro djs doing mixes and never touch the jog wheel.

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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Hi,

Im still mythed about this. How do djs mix up from one bpm into another a keep the mix locked?

Using sync works fine but im not a cheat :)

Ian Tobin 0 voti
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Move both pitch sliders at the same time! Oh, and Sync isn't cheating. Consider it a "power tool." Do you see construction workers building houses by hammer and nail? No, they use nail guns to get the work done quicker and more precisely.

Pulse 0 voti
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I'm having this same problem..I post on another line of forum ...whatever...I am a progressive house dj ,so that means my mixing time its much more than a minute ...actually changes but its about 2 minutes...the cdjs  drifting out sucks and Im very disapointed on that ...I dont see great djs making a huge beatmatching on phones (in that case ,pre listening to more than a minute)...Am I wrong?

Have a possible that Pioneer ad two decimals on cdjs in a next firmware?

My cdjs are 350.

 

My question on :

https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/204953893-Cdj-350-drifiting-out

 

Cheers

Cristian Schvantes 0 voti
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@Pulse thks for your reply! :)

 

But What people who buy cdjs based on a history of quality and technology and other things ,people who are looking for some accuracy will do??Work with software? Go back to turntables (yes I know this is analogic ,but works...)?

Cristian Schvantes 0 voti
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Most of these people use their ears to beatmatch, not their eyes.

Pulse 0 voti
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If you want no drift over eons of time sync (computer or CDJ) is the only way to go. Relying solely on sync is however quite limiting, there are some track combinations that requires to be a bit out of sync to sound good. So even the tightest beat grid will let you down at times.  

The Henrik Maneuver 0 voti
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