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CDJ 2000 Firmware 4.10 Feedback

Hi all,

Please post here your tests and feedbacks of the Ver.4.10 firmware for CDJ 2000 ... Thx

L V G

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@panoulix:  It has been stated categorically by Pioneer reps numerous times that the current CDJ-2000 will never support FLAC.

Mark90 0 votes
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@ panoulix    Speaking personally here, but I don't really care if the CDJ-2000 supports FLAC.  And it is not a simple firmware issue.  FLAC support would require hardware changes, so we should not expect to see this type of support on the current model.

@ julien     Please do not take my tone as being rude....   The files oreste posted are corrupted.  We don't need to assume for argument sake that they are the problem.  They are the problem.  I believe my testing has already demonstrated this.  I have shown this by rendering the files to AIFF and solving the issue, and then by purchasing a new copy of one of the audio files as MP3 from a reputable source.  That MP3 worked perfectly.  The only variable in this test was the original file.

Bottom line is that MP3 files can get corrupted.  I am not an engineer so I cannot explain to you why this happens.  Frankly, I don't care why it happens.  Knowing that MP3 files obviously are more problematic than uncompressed audio is more than enough reason for me to shun the format.  Combined with the sound quality issue, and I would gladly push MP3 out to sea on a raft and shoot it with a flaming arrow.

As music enthusiasts, we should all be moving away from these compressed formats.  Audio compression was created during a time when hard drive space was expensive and internet speeds were slow.  The argument for compressing audio at all is getting weaker with each day that passes.

Fuse Promote 0 votes
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Yep MP3 may be poorer than uncompressed formats but it's also nearly half the cost of an uncompressed format at Beatport so I have to choose MP3 

PaulM72 0 votes
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BTW, concerning this MP3 vs WAV debate, I remember that this question had been raised on another forum. A test was organized: group members would send original WAVs of different music types to the moderator, who would then encode them in MP3 versions of different qualities, from 64 to 320kbps if I remember right. The files were then reconverted to WAV in order to suppress any possibility to identify the compression format/bit rate, and group members were then asked to evaluate samples by pair: which one would be of higher quality than the other?

Interestingly, the huge majority - if not everybody - wasn't able to distinguish WAV from MP3 and even at some point high quality vs bad quality MP3, the threshold lying around 192 kpbs is my memory's right.

Side note: all members were music enthusiasts and/or DJs...

So for my part, I'll stick to MP3, cheaper and takes less place on my drive ;)

julienx2k2 0 votes
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Like I mentioned. I'm a memeber of XMIX and Ultimix and I get there MP3 and the qualtiy is excellent. Both service's refused to release MP3 until the quality was on par with wave. Not one issue!!

 

As for beatport & itunes I have had issues. I'm not sure if the standard is as high and there focus is releasing product in advance.

Jason Ferguson 0 votes
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I get all my tunes from Juno and I've only had a duff file once!, a quick call and they confirmed it was indeed faulty and my account was credited.  Most of the tunes I download are on day of release and all are 320kbps MP3's.

Effect 0 votes
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@ Dream Treez there is no 3rd CDJ at the club. My issue is not a work around it's finding a solution to this serious problem. I have been using the CDJ's with Rekordbox for the past year and I have never had this fatal issue before I updated to this firmware version. I have figured out a work around for the time being and I will go over it in hopes to help out some other Pro Link users that are having the same problem. 

Last night at about 1:20am the CDJ I was Qing on froze up. I had burned two CD's with MP3's on them before the night started and had them loaded into the CDJ's in case of this happening. I spoke with tech support earlier in the week and the rep was rather sure that if the pro link/CDJ freeze happened I would be able to hit the "CD" button and play off of a CD. This information was proven to be not true. When the player freezes it is a FATAL ERROR i.e. it has crashed the player and it will not play ANYTHING. The only fix is to power cycle the player.

 

THE FIX:

So here is the solution as far as I see it. If this happens to you have either a USB or CD loaded in as a backup. When the player you Qing on locks up power cycle it and then when it reboots play off of your back up source (USB or CD). Mix into your next song on the player that you just rebooted, as soon as you are in to your track on that player reboot your computer and power cycle the other CDJ that you were not having the issue with. When the Other CDJ reboots go to your back up source on that deck as well (CD or USB) Once your computer reboots start up Rekordbox and re-establish the link to the CDJ's and the DJM. By rebooting your computer you do not have to reboot the DJM the link connection is reset by rebooting your  computer.

I am glad that I could figure this out for Pioneer and any other users who are having this issue. Having to shut off music in the middle of the night is not an option. For me switching to an ipod or another source that I cannot properly mix is not an option. My workaround will allow you keep mixing and re-establish the Pro Link in less than 5 min. If you are using a router and not the DJM this will work for you as well, the key is terminating the CAT5 link to your computer and reseting it.

FYI if you think you can just reboot the CDJ that is frozen and it will relink to Rekordbox it will not.  The first time I had a player lock up on me like this I tried to power cycle in hopes it would relink to my computer not only did it not relink it actually jeopardized the link to the working CDJ, that is why it is important to reboot both CDJ's and switch to USB or CD until a new Pro LInk can be established. 

Pioneer please find out why this is happening and fix the problem, I use Rekordbox and Pro Link to DJ, this will not change. I understand that I could use a USB or DVD's to DJ but that is not why I bought this setup. I bought this setup due to the promo videos demonstrating the Pro Link feature, it should work and be rock solid. Thank you.

dustin cook 0 votes
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@Dustin, rebooting your computer seems pretty extreme. What happens if you just pull the network cable out and plug it in again? Alternatively you could restart the network services on your computer which should do the same thing as your reboot, just a lot quicker.

@julienx2k2 on the mp3 vs wav debate, "joe public" is probably not going to hear any difference between a 441.1 khxz 16bit wav and a 320 kpbs MP3, the reason being they haven't had any training on what to listen for. However, once you know what to listen for, you will probably stand a better chance of hearing the difference. The usual problems with MP3s is the tops don't sound crisp (they quite often get time smeared so all your high hats don't quite play together) and the lows sound flabby. The low end problems are particularly noticeably in a club with a decent sound system. The other thing is MP3s don't stand up as well to time manipulations, so make the master tempo function on CDJs sound worse than it is. If you're interested there's a good listening training app that's free made by JBL I think. I'll see if I can dig out the link. 

Another thing on the MP# vs wav test, if your listening in a poor room, over poor speakers and a poor sound card, you really aren't going to have much of a chance of hearing any difference, due to the nature of your listening environment. IoSR at Surrey Uni in the UK does a lot of research into this area if you're looking for more information.

Will K 0 votes
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@ Will K I thought it might be a bit of overkill to restart my laptop, but better safe than sorry is what I thought. I will try just quitting out of Rekordbox and plugging out and then back in the network cable and then starting up Rekordbox. I'm sure I will get a chance to test this tonight. 

Another thing I noticed when quitting Rekordbox last night is that it took a really long time to quit, so I will see tonight how cleanly I can get out of the program. If this crashes Rekordbox and you cant quit or force quit the program then holding down the power button and forcing a reboot will be the only 100% guaranteed option. Thanks for the network advice it would seriously speed up the work around if you are correct. 

dustin cook 0 votes
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BTW I never did an answer on reverting to previous Firmware Versions? Is it possible? since I've jumped several versions to get to this one does anyone know what version is safe when it comes to this freezing up issue? If it is indeed possible I would rather just revert and get back to DJing without fear. Please advise. 

dustin cook 0 votes
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sorry about the typo "I never did get an answer" 

dustin cook 0 votes
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@dustin, what sort of computer are you running? You should always be able to kill the software these days unless it's locked your whole computer.

The official response from Pioneer is you can't downgrade the firmware. However I have an idea how you might make it work, but I haven't got around to trying it. If you are really stuck email me (will@willkonitzer.com) and I'll share my idea. 

Will K 0 votes
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So I just saw the forum for "Firmware Downgrading" and judging by the tone I guess we are forbidden to talk about that as an option and my guess is it would cause bigger issues. So that answers that question. Thanks Pulse. I still would like some answers on what is going on with Pro Link? Can your engineers replicate the issue so many people are having? 

dustin cook 0 votes
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@ Will K, I'm running a macbook pro. What i'm getting at is that if the software is going to crash and I have to force quit it I would rather reboot the whole computer to make sure things are going to work. This is just a procedure I've learned from years of engineering, when in doubt reboot and power cycle the system. I've seen software and audio programs do some strange things that only get corrected with a restart. My procedure is not the point. The problem is the CDJ's freezing up. 

dustin cook 0 votes
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yeap Johnyboy is right. Latest firmware is much better than previous ones but it still needs improvement.

Dream Treez 0 votes
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tonight scrolling my library  from the last 10 days i found another two tracks with the same ''problem'' - the glitch between 0:16-0:19. another thing which i observed is, and with this i will launch another question for those who still think that the files are bad, why after the glitch if i press the backward arrow  the glitch disappears??  15 minutes ago i put the 4 files from the archive to a audio cd and everything was ok. so my believe is that the firmware 4.10 is faulty. now somebody it will say: but the mp3 was converted by nero, the thing is that the files are converted from that "bad" sources which by the way works fine on everything  except the mighty cdj. 

oreste 0 votes
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@oreste > When asked where you got the tracks from, you said:

sites over the internet

But then you were called out and then said:

:)  www.beatport.com but i don't have a bill.

You later back-pedalled a bit and said:

'm 90% sure that the track are purchased from beatport.

@Fuse Promote went and spent his own money and bought one of the tracks himself:

I just purchased a copy of the Dan Caster track from Beatport as an MP3.  It works perfectly in my CDJ-2000 via Link.  No glitches.  No trainwrecks.

The problem is your audio files.  I don't know what the problem is, but I think this definitively proves the problem is your files and not the players.

I got back home and ran the tracks through some tools to test them.  The majority of the tests came up clean, but when I ran through one final test, the thing I found most interesting was one of the ID3 tags which nobody else seemed to point out...

mp320vip.blogspot.com

You DID NOT buy these tracks from Beatport.  

You obtained the tracks from a source of questionable legality and then lied about it.  I am done supporting you on the problems you're experiencing with the playback of these problematic tracks as it's clear the problem is NOT the players but your source audio.

Pulse 0 votes
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@oreste, also I got to add that you are complaining about MT issues in firm that seems to be the best since cdj2000 came out. As I said before if you were complaining during previous firm I would have understand, but with 4.10 things have gone much, much better.

Dream Treez 0 votes
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YES PULSE! Talk about bust it wide open. This topic has bored the hell out of me. I'm sick of these 'DJ's' moaning and picking holes in these fantastic players, it's embarrasing. Now I shall quote my mentor from 1998 when I was first being taught. "a good DJ never blames the equipment'

Marsano 0 votes
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@ Will K, I had a chance yet again to test out the work around Saturday night. You indeed are correct, Rekordbox quit without an issue and after unplugging the network cable from my computer and plugging it back in I restarted Rekordbox and was able to re-estabish the Pro Link to the DJM and the CDJ's. Of course I had to power cycle the CDJ's but not the DJM. Using CD's as a temporary source and staggering the power cycle to the CDJ's allowed me to keep playing without major issue. 

As you can see this is not a simple solution but it does work. I would still love to know what is going on with Pro Link and the CDJ's? 

dustin cook 0 votes
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Dustin, can you try bypassing the djm2000 and using a linksys or netgear switch for a night? this will at least eliminate the possibilty of it being the switch in the DJM

BriChi 0 votes
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Just played a gig on Saturday night.  I used only AIFF files.  Absolutely no problems, whatsoever, from 10:00 PM - 2:45 AM.

Fuse Promote 0 votes
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@ oreste     Have you tried using an audio program like Audacity, Peak, or Heaven forbid even iTunes, to attempt to convert your problematic MP3 files to WAV or AIFF and test them out?  I did this and fixed the skipping issue, so I would think you could do this yourself and fix it, too.  You could then convert them back to MP3 if you wanted, although I'm personally not sure why you would want to.

Fuse Promote 0 votes
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 first of all  excuse me for my bad english. i understand 70 % and how you can see i can speak and write only 5 % (maybe less)

@ fuse thanks for not making me a liar and a theft and for your solution which i already thought about. and for the others, who accused me, maybe if you are living in romania and be a regular guy you will understand why i don't buy all my music. but hey, it's fine, i didn't expect a solution or an explanation because here is not a matter of marketing where you (pioneer) are very good. it's easy to say: you are a fraud because you aren't buying the music from an official store and that's why the cdj are glitchy and other media players work fine. to be clear, i will not accuse or argue with somebody present on this forum, because nobody from here i think is guilty that a guy or a team of guys decided to launch to the market this imperfect product who cdj 2000 has proven to be for me.

@ dream is better for sure but for me the mixes don't sound good with mt on an for that it wiil stay off.  you know from the other topic that i'm not the only one who is thinking this way. i will try to make you a sample maybe you will understand what i'm saying 

@Marsano 1 like i said i'm a so called bedroom dj  who is using his gear good enough i like to think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRdDUtOZwbc - i'm sure that are thing better than this and 2 i have a notice for you: we are in 2012, 1998 was 14 years before. in 98 was out cdj 100 who plays audio cd very good (even now) but some of us passed from that. that quote is ok for somebody who's using turntables but for me is a big difference betwen cdj 100 and cdj 2000. if  you will read this page http://forums.pioneerdj.com/forums/20141583-cdj-2000 you will see that many more dj (some of them better than me) are facing problems with those fantastic players.

oreste 0 votes
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I believe I solved my problem. I converted my itunes tracks mp4 to mp3. Now all of my files are MP3.  Played a track that I had issues with and played it last week with no issues. Make sure all of your files are one format!!

Jason Ferguson 0 votes
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I believe I solved my problem. I converted my itunes tracks mp4 to mp3. Now all of my files are MP3.  Played a track that I had issues with and played it last week with no issues. Make sure all of your files are one format!!

Jason Ferguson 0 votes
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@ oreste      I realize you are not a native English speaker, so there is no need for you to apologize to me or anyone else here for your communication skills.  You are doing a far better job than I would be if I were trying to speak with someone in Romania.  I can only respect your ability to learn a foreign language and attempts to interact with others.

As for this forum....  My goals in being a member of this forum are to help others, and to learn more about the equipment which I use to play music.  The more I learn about this equipment, the greater my enjoyment of the music.  So there is a selfish component to my participation here.  I don't feel that any thanks is deserved.

That said, I do feel that my testing has proven conclusively that some of your audio files have technical issues which are affecting their performance on the CDJ-2000 players.  In the interest of being honest and solving the problem, I cannot simply blame Pioneer for these issues.  My independent testing has provided more than enough evidence to me that the source of the problems you have been experiencing is your audio files.  And, furthermore, I have determined a potential solution to your problems by converting the MP3 files to another format.  I understand and sympathize with you and other forum members who have extensive MP3 libraries, but at the same time I cannot blame Pioneer for your issues.  I'm not really sure what else we can offer at this point?

 

Fuse Promote 0 votes
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@ BriChi I know your feelings from previous post about the DJM 2000. The reality is I don't have a router but if the engineers think that might be the problem I am sure willing to go out and buy one. Or Pioneer can send me out a new mixer without a faulty router in it, but I'm sure they would have to be 100% that that is the issue before they do a recall. My point is they have a team of engineers that should be able to tell me what the problem is, not the other way around? If it is me who has to tell them what is wrong then maybe I should be in a different line of work? I am all for helping out but when it comes to troubleshooting on this level for a huge company like Pioneer I have to draw the line. 

 I actually did buy a router on friday but I returned it without ever opening it once I figured out my work around. My thought was that I could power cycle a router but then I realized I could just power cycle my laptop or just reboot Rekordbox and unplug and plug back in the cat5 cable. That worked fine this weekend.

Like I said if the engineers would like me to trouble shoot this by using a router this weekend and seeing if it locks up again I would be more than happy to. I can always return it if it doesn't make a difference. My gut tells me it's not the router in the DJM 2000 but that is just a hunch. My thought is that it is something to do with the CDJ 2000 itself and the firmware update. 

I am aware that the only way to be sure is to systematically eliminate components until the problem is isolated I'm just hoping someone who works for Pioneer will do this. Fact is I'm not the one who gets paid to solve these problems. I have spent allot of time trying to figure this out and I'm still waiting for Pioneer to give me an official answer on what is going on with Pro Link, Rekordbox, DJM 2000, and the CDJ's to cause the players to freeze like they are.

BTW back to the external router idea, I believe it has been established in previous posts that people who are using external routers are having the same freezing up issue I am? Correct me if I am wrong?

I do appreciate your input, you seem to have a good understanding of this. 

dustin cook 0 votes
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As you can tell I'm conflicted about what to do to help solve this freezing issue. I don't want to waste my time. My question is simple. Does Pioneer and or this forum think that at this point the best guess is that the switch in the DJM2000 that is causing this issue? 

dustin cook 0 votes
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